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  #1  
Old May 16, '13, 7:32 pm
Michael_M Michael_M is offline
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Default The Sedevacantist Position

I recently found this website: (Removed link as per CAF policy)

Basically, the sedevacantists believe that Vatican II is heretical, that we don't have a valid Pope and haven't since Vat II, and that the sacraments are now invalid and everyone who participates in the invalid sacraments and in the Novus Ordo mass are going to hell.

I read a bit from this website, and it has me a bit concerned. Can anyone reassure me that I am actually a real catholic, and not a hell-bound heretic?

Last edited by Michael Francis; May 16, '13 at 8:24 pm.
  #2  
Old May 16, '13, 7:42 pm
Cojuanco Cojuanco is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Yes you are a Catholic, Vatican II is a legitimate ecumenical council, Francis is a valid Pope, the ordinary form and all the sacraments including the Ordinary Form of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as universally done throughout the world by Catholics are valid. The CMRI is out of communion with the Catholic Church, and is in schism.

Any other questions?
  #3  
Old May 16, '13, 7:45 pm
april32010 april32010 is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

do yourself a favor and don't read this garbage
  #4  
Old May 16, '13, 7:46 pm
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Oneofthewomen Oneofthewomen is online now
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

The only people who are possibly "hell-bound heretics" are the one who spew this kind of stuff! Stay away! Stay far, far away!
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  #5  
Old May 16, '13, 7:51 pm
Michael_M Michael_M is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cojuanco View Post
Yes you are a Catholic, Vatican II is a legitimate ecumenical council, Francis is a valid Pope, the ordinary form and all the sacraments including the Ordinary Form of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as universally done throughout the world by Catholics are valid. The CMRI is out of communion with the Catholic Church, and is in schism.

Any other questions?
That is certainly what I want to be told, but how do I know it to be true? They claim that VAT II over-turned certain infallible dogmas. I looked into it, and it appears to be true. How does thr church respond to these claims?
  #6  
Old May 16, '13, 7:56 pm
Cojuanco Cojuanco is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_M View Post
That is certainly what I want to be told, but how do I know it to be true? They claim that VAT II over-turned certain infallible dogmas. I looked into it, and it appears to be true. How does thr church respond to these claims?
Which dogmas do they claim the Council overturned?

As for me, put it this way. If they are right, that means the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church. Christ promised us it would never happen. So either God is a liar, or more likely, they teach error. These people have failed to think with the Church as much as their liberal (theologically) counterparts have.
  #7  
Old May 16, '13, 8:06 pm
Michael_M Michael_M is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cojuanco View Post
Which dogmas do they claim the Council overturned?

As for me, put it this way. If they are right, that means the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church. Christ promised us it would never happen. So either God is a liar, or more likely, they teach error. These people have failed to think with the Church as much as their liberal (theologically) counterparts have.
This page (Removed link as per CAF policy) outlines what they think is heretical about the church post-VAT II. There are quite a few things, and they make reference to previous councils.

But, yes, you're right. "And you are Petros, and on this rock I will build my church on earth; and not even the gates of Hades shall prevail against it."

Yet, this kind of thing is rather disconcerting. Two sides who claim to have truth, and I'm a lay person without a sophisticated knowledge of church history or canon law.

Last edited by Michael Francis; May 16, '13 at 8:24 pm.
  #8  
Old May 16, '13, 8:20 pm
Cojuanco Cojuanco is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_M View Post
This page (Removed link as per CAF policy) outlines what they think is heretical about the church post-VAT II. There are quite a few things, and they make reference to previous councils.

But, yes, you're right. "And you are Petros, and on this rock I will build my church on earth; and not even the gates of Hades shall prevail against it."

Yet, this kind of thing is rather disconcerting. Two sides who claim to have truth, and I'm a lay person without a sophisticated knowledge of church history or canon law.
They misinterpret what the Council said on religious liberty and on ecumenism. As to the Holy Sacrifice, the changes to the Mass after Vatican II are no more revolutionary as to the changes wrought by the Council of Trent.
  #9  
Old May 16, '13, 8:30 pm
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Dee S Dee S is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_M View Post
But, yes, you're right. "And you are Petros, and on this rock I will build my church on earth; and not even the gates of Hades shall prevail against it."

Yet, this kind of thing is rather disconcerting. Two sides who claim to have truth, and I'm a lay person without a sophisticated knowledge of church history or canon law.
There have always been heresies and rebellion against the Catholic Church right from the beginning ...so nothing new here. It started off with the rebellion of the bad angels, and continues...

No "two sides" exist - there is only one true Church.
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  #10  
Old May 16, '13, 8:41 pm
Darryl B Darryl B is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

I too have a question about the sedevacantist position. Do they review their position after each election of a new Pope? Or is it a permanent thing.
  #11  
Old May 16, '13, 9:05 pm
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po18guy po18guy is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Who made them Pope? By what authority do they declare anything?

What is concerning is that the devil is real and that he seeks to divide the Body of Christ. Even worse, he influences brother Catholics to doubt - and doubt is the devil's primary weapon. Resist him and he will flee.
  #12  
Old May 16, '13, 9:06 pm
TheDoctor TheDoctor is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_M View Post
Two sides who claim to have truth, and I'm a lay person without a sophisticated knowledge of church history or canon law.
Then you would do well my friend to listen to the Church and to the Church only.

If there is a Church teaching you do not understand, this forum has been a Godsend - please just ask.

Here is a great resource to go to checkout a "Catholic" website before you go there: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/
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  #13  
Old May 16, '13, 9:10 pm
TheDoctor TheDoctor is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl B View Post
I too have a question about the sedevacantist position. Do they review their position after each election of a new Pope? Or is it a permanent thing.
It depends on why the group believes the chair is vacant and what they think needs to be done to have a valid Pope elected. Since none of the Cardinals electing the Pope care what these groups think, I would hazard a guess no Pope elected by Rome will suffice for them.
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  #14  
Old May 16, '13, 9:17 pm
Michael_M Michael_M is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl B View Post
I too have a question about the sedevacantist position. Do they review their position after each election of a new Pope? Or is it a permanent thing.
They believe that the office of the bishop of Rome is vacant, and will be until a new pope is elected who upholds everything that the Vatican II Council did away with. Hope that makes sense.
  #15  
Old May 16, '13, 9:25 pm
George Stegmeir George Stegmeir is offline
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Default Re: The Sedevacantist Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_M View Post
That is certainly what I want to be told, but how do I know it to be true? They claim that VAT II over-turned certain infallible dogmas. I looked into it, and it appears to be true. How does thr church respond to these claims?
The problem with these people is that they presume to know more about Catholicism than the Pope, all of the Cardinals and all of the Bishops.
Doesn't it sound incredible that the hundreds of Bishops and Theologians who participated in Vatican II were all heretical?
These people themselves are victims of their egos and themselves have been prompted by satan to go against Holy Mother the Church. They are no different than the Eastern members of the Church who split from the Church in the11th Century, or the protestants of the 15th Century! They will fall by the wayside into being an insignificant sect, much like the Old Catholic Church did after Vatican I. Today they are of no importance.
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