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  #1  
Old Jun 1, '13, 2:43 pm
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TheIrishman TheIrishman is offline
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Default Adam and Eve

I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing? I've been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world. Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?

next question, Is it a literal story or a symbolic story? I've been taught its a literal story, but i would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Is Adam the Archangel Michael? Again, this is a common teaching in the LDS faith and would like to get your opinion on it.

And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam? A common teaching in the LDS faith is that we are accountable for our own sins and not for Adam's transgression.
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  #2  
Old Jun 1, '13, 3:14 pm
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Ad Orientem Ad Orientem is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing?

Bad in itself, but good in a way, because, "O happy fault which won for us so great a Redeemer" (from an ancient Latin chant still chanted at Easter Vigil). The original sin was not sexual reproduction, by the way, but some act of disobedience.

if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?

God could certainly have made a way for this to happen without the Fall. Elijah, for example, was taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire (presumably without dying).

Is it a literal story or a symbolic story?

It is accurate historically, but there is good reason to believe it uses figurative language to express certain things (six days, etc). There is also room for disagreement on certain things. It depends what precisely you're talking about.

Is Adam the Archangel Michael?

Absolutely not.

And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam?

I won't try to answer this in my own words. See the Catechism, para. 404-405.
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  #3  
Old Jun 1, '13, 3:19 pm
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hn160 hn160 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing? I've been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world. Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?

next question, Is it a literal story or a symbolic story? I've been taught its a literal story, but i would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Is Adam the Archangel Michael? Again, this is a common teaching in the LDS faith and would like to get your opinion on it.

And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam? A common teaching in the LDS faith is that we are accountable for our own sins and not for Adam's transgression.
The teaching of the LC-MS is that Adam and Eve are historical persons.
Original Sin was passed down by Adam, although I kid my wife that it was entirely Eve's fault.
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  #4  
Old Jun 1, '13, 3:22 pm
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kimg901 kimg901 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by hn160 View Post
The teaching of the LC-MS is that Adam and Eve are historical persons.
Original Sin was passed down by Adam, although I kid my wife that it was entirely Eve's fault.
LOL. Here is something for the adults (No sexual content) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liLU2tEz7KY
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  #5  
Old Jun 1, '13, 3:58 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Here is what the Church tells us:



"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that "Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day" (CCC 337), but "nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun" (CCC 338).

"It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.



"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37).

"The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, "The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents" (CCC 390)."



Peace,
Ed
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  #6  
Old Jun 1, '13, 4:05 pm
Razanir Razanir is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Adam is not Michael the Archangel.

As others have noted, original sin is bad, but it inevitably lead to a far greater good.

All your other questions can be answered in this tract: Adam, Eve, and Evolution
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  #7  
Old Jun 1, '13, 5:45 pm
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing?
Catholicism starts with the fact that Adam and Eve, like you and me, are created in the image of God. Thus, God can call us to share in His life for an eternity of love and joy, and we can answer yes to His invitation.

Before we can start talking about Adam's sin, what it was, etc., we have to be precise in how we understand God's relationship with Adam.

God is a transcendent Pure Spirit without limitations (simplified description). Adam and ourselves are an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. We have a decomposing anatomy and an eternal spiritual soul.

God is the Creator and Adam was the first human creature.

How would you describe the relationship between God and Adam in the Garden of Eden?
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  #8  
Old Jun 1, '13, 5:54 pm
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petra22 petra22 is offline
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Talking Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by hn160 View Post
The teaching of the LC-MS is that Adam and Eve are historical persons.
Original Sin was passed down by Adam, although I kid my wife that it was entirely Eve's fault.
My dad used to kid my mother in the same way about it all being Eve's fault. She gave a snappy reply. "You know Adam reached it for her because she was so short..."
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  #9  
Old Jun 2, '13, 4:43 am
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Sam_777 Sam_777 is offline
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Exclamation Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
I've been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world.
Interesting!!!
I would like to hear the LDS members opinion about that!
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  #10  
Old Jun 3, '13, 1:45 pm
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Continued from Post 7
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....97&postcount=7

For Catholics, Adam's relationship with God before Original Sin is very important.

Adam is created in the image of God, which means that his own human nature, like yours and mine, is an unique unification of both the spiritual world and the material world. He is rational, eternal spiritual soul and decomposing material anatomy, just like us.

Being the first human beings, Adam along with his spouse Eve were immediately established in friendship with God, their Creator. They were in the state of original holiness and justice-- which means that they were sharing in the life of God (known today as the state of Sanctifying Grace) and they had harmony within themselves.

Catholicism teaches that the whole of humanity is in Adam "as one body of one man". (paragraphs 396-409, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.) Adam's human nature would be transmitted to all his descendants.

What is easy to forget is that Adam, being the creature, needed to live in obedience to the commands of our Creator. Adam, being both spiritual and material, would never be equal to God. Notice that the real temptation by Satan was for Adam to be like gods who know everything. (Genesis 3: 1-7) Adam let his trust in our Creator die in his heart. He chose his own desire to be like a god. He went against the requirement of being obedient. Adam's pride and consequently his disobedience shattered the original relationship between humanity and divinity. This broken relationship is the Original Sin of the original man.

Since Adam's nature would be transmitted by propagation to all his descendants, his nature in this broken relationship (Original Sin) is also transmitted to all. The Sacrament of Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, restores a person's relationship with God. This is also known as the grace which erases Original Sin. However, the loss of harmony within our nature remains. We have a weakened or wounded human nature. Jesus established the Catholic Church as the means to help us live in friendship with God via the Seven Sacraments. Jesus is continually present to us in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.

To answer the question -- "Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?"

If Adam had chosen God over himself, then Adam's original nature (friendship with God) would have been transmitted by propagation to all his descendants. Having both intellect and will, Adam's descendants could choose to reject God; however, they would have been born with Adam's original nature of holiness and harmony. Heaven or paradise was not the same as the earthly place where Adam and Eve lived. Those persons who remained in God's grace would eventually go to heaven where they would see God as He truly is and thus live in eternal joy.

Last edited by grannymh; Jun 3, '13 at 1:59 pm.
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  #11  
Old Jun 3, '13, 2:04 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
I have a few questions regarding the story of Adam and Eve. For starters, do you view the sin Adam made by partaking of the fobidden fruit a good thing or a bad thing? I've been taught in the LDS church that we should thank Adam for what he did because it allowed Adam and Eve to have children and to bring us into the world. Also, do you believe that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit that we would be in paradise right now?

next question, Is it a literal story or a symbolic story? I've been taught its a literal story, but i would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Is Adam the Archangel Michael? Again, this is a common teaching in the LDS faith and would like to get your opinion on it.

And last question, are we held responsible for the sin of Adam? A common teaching in the LDS faith is that we are accountable for our own sins and not for Adam's transgression.
Are Mormons glad too that Satan also disobeyed God? How can disobedience be a good thing? Oh that is right, I forgot, Mormons have an entire different theology or should I say odd?

Ah no! Adam is NOT the archangel Michael. What good would it be for Michael to take a body, disobey and then be back with God? How wacky!

Angels are pure spiritual beings and may appear in a coporeal (i.e., bodily) manner it remains a spirit, it only appears to have a body. Physical appearances remains something external to its being.
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  #12  
Old Jun 3, '13, 2:15 pm
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TheIrishman TheIrishman is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by Nicea325 View Post
Are Mormons glad too that Satan also disobeyed God? How can disobedience be a good thing? Oh that is right, I forgot, Mormons have an entire different theology or should I say odd?

Ah no! Adam is NOT the archangel Michael. What good would it be for Michael to take a body, disobey and then be back with God? How wacky!

Angels are pure spiritual beings and may appear in a coporeal (i.e., bodily) manner it remains a spirit, it only appears to have a body. Physical appearances remains something external to its being.
Well, actually yes. Without Satan, we wouldn't know good from evil and be able to find happiness with God. Because Adam disobeyed and was cast from the Garden of Eden, they were able to have children and teach them the consequences of disobeying God vs the blessings of following His commandments. Disobedience can be a learning tool, i'm not saying we should go out and disobey everything and that makes it ok, but thats how we learn. From the mistakes of others and the successes of others.

So then I would also assume ya'll don't believe Noah is the angel Gabriel either?
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  #13  
Old Jun 3, '13, 2:18 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
Well, actually yes. Without Satan, we wouldn't know good from evil and be able to find happiness with God. Because Adam disobeyed and was cast from the Garden of Eden, they were able to have children and teach them the consequences of disobeying God vs the blessings of following His commandments. Disobedience can be a learning tool, i'm not saying we should go out and disobey everything and that makes it ok, but thats how we learn. From the mistakes of others and the successes of others.

So then I would also assume ya'll don't believe Noah is the angel Gabriel either?
Actually, humanity did not need the Devil to commit sin/disobedience.
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  #14  
Old Jun 3, '13, 2:23 pm
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TheIrishman TheIrishman is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by Nicea325 View Post
Yes in the larger context of things,but the point being is that disobedience is never good.
I'm not saying that I am applauding Adam for disobeying God. I'm just saying that without him and eve's choice, we wouldn't be here.
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  #15  
Old Jun 3, '13, 2:24 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
I'm not saying that I am applauding Adam for disobeying God. I'm just saying that without him and eve's choice, we wouldn't be here.
Not true. Actually, humanity did not need the Devil to commit sin/disobedience.
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