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View Poll Results: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?
Hero 28 73.68%
Traitor 10 26.32%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old Jun 11, '13, 9:46 am
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BroomWagon BroomWagon is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

This was info we needed to know, one just wonders why he'd go to China. Also, he could have done this a different way, being a "whistleblower" instead.
  #32  
Old Jun 11, '13, 9:48 am
Fairwinds Fairwinds is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin View Post
....

All the ad hominem attacks on this person are a distraction from the issue he has brought forth, an issue of vast importance. ...
the traitor who did some good, unfortunately, by running to China, he squandered any consideration he'd get in his sentencing.
  #33  
Old Jun 11, '13, 9:49 am
oldcelt oldcelt is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

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Originally Posted by Fairwinds View Post
traitor, but I'm glad he did it.
That's where I fall. There can be no defense for exposing classified information, but I do think that we need increased oversight of these programs by Congress. Just because we have the capability to monitor someone's activities does not mean that we should necessarily do so.
I go with the notion of reasonable suspicion...if there is reason to suspect that someone is engaging with criminal or terrorist elements, then you go and get the warrant to begin watching them.....not watch everyone hoping to find something.
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  #34  
Old Jun 11, '13, 9:54 am
Fairwinds Fairwinds is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcelt View Post
That's where I fall. There can be no defense for exposing classified information, but I do think that we need increased oversight of these programs by Congress. Just because we have the capability to monitor someone's activities does not mean that we should necessarily do so.
I go with the notion of reasonable suspicion...if there is reason to suspect that someone is engaging with criminal or terrorist elements, then you go and get the warrant to begin watching them.....not watch everyone hoping to find something.
I agree with the reasonable suspicion to start the process.

the traitor did expose some horrendous abuses, but running to china instead of accepting responsibility (like Ellsberg, even, to an extent, like Manning who had an arguably decent motive) erases any sympathy. I wonder what his primary purpose was. maybe it was just espionage and the whistle blowing a smokescreen.
  #35  
Old Jun 11, '13, 10:25 am
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tuscany tuscany is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

I would like to know exactly what "classified" info. he did expose. I don't have all the details, but before I decide what I think of what Snowdon did, I need the true details, not just this administration's version of it. Not that they would ever lie about things.........

Snowdon possibly did think to go to a Congressman but he knows how much info the gov. has on everyone. Would it not be logical for him to now assume that since the gov. has incriminating or embarrassing info. on all of us or someone in our family, that whoever he went to to tell might be scared off by this same gov. ? How does he know for sure who the "Untouchables" are, and who can be scared off ?
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  #36  
Old Jun 11, '13, 10:39 am
Fairwinds Fairwinds is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

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Originally Posted by tuscany View Post
... Would it not be logical for him to now assume that since the gov. has incriminating or embarrassing info. on all of us or someone in our family, that whoever he went to to tell might be scared off by this same gov. ? How does he know for sure who the "Untouchables" are, and who can be scared off ?
this is getting into potboiler territory.
  #37  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:05 am
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tabycat tabycat is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringil View Post
CAF political logic:

If GOP in office Snowden is a traitor
If Obama in office Snowden is a hero.

I think that Snowden is both a hero and a traitor. So how is that for 'CAF political logic'?
  #38  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:06 am
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tuscany tuscany is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Fairwinds,

So you are saying that our gov. CAN'T be corrupt ? That our gov. isn't taking over previously privately owned companies ? That more and more isn't being run by the gov. ? That the gov. isn't getting more and more powerful ? That private info. on people isn't power over them ?

Yea O.K., I'M the crack smoker.............
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  #39  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:07 am
Fairwinds Fairwinds is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

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Originally Posted by tabycat View Post
I think that Snowden is both a hero and a traitor. So how is that for 'CAF political logic'?
they're not mutually exclusive, but now I'm wondering if this isn't more espionage rather than whistle blowing. we'll know more when he resurfaces in the Peoples Republic.
  #40  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:17 am
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Orogeny Orogeny is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

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Originally Posted by markomalley View Post
How, exactly? The government has already announced that they monitor terrorist communications. They know nothing now that they didn't already know.
How do you know what they knew? Did they know how they were being monitored? Well, they do now.

Peace

Tim
  #41  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:19 am
HansTrappist HansTrappist is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

How despicable to see so many people call him a Traitor.

The real Traitors and Tyrants are the Bush and Obama Administrations who created this Unconstitutional program and then lied about it under oath:

http://youtu.be/FXLTtAJrKBg
  #42  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:24 am
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

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Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
Which founding sought asylum in China, again?
He didn't seek asylum in China.

He is temporarily laying his head in Hong Kong, a Chinese territory, while deciding what to do next. Iceland has offered him asylum; they wouldn't do that if he had already settled permanently elsewhere.

If the "rebels" in 1865 were not called traitors, after they fought against their nation, I don't get how an info-peddling flunky in peacetime gets that label.

ICXC NIKA
  #43  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:41 am
HansTrappist HansTrappist is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcelt View Post
That's where I fall. There can be no defense for exposing classified information.
He didn't reveal legitimately classified information.

He revealed the existence of an illegal, unconstitutional, treasonous, tyrannical program that had not been created nor authorized by the American People to be classified in the first place.
  #44  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:42 am
scipio337 scipio337 is offline
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringil View Post
CAF political logic:

If GOP in office Snowden is a traitor
If Obama in office Snowden is a hero.
That's the opposite, according to a recent Pew poll. More Democrats flipped to "Acceptable" in 2013. 64% now think it is "acceptable" vs. 37% in 2006.


It's Bush's fault!!! YEEAAARRRGGGHH1!!!!





Quote:
Democrats now view the NSA’s phone surveillance as acceptable by 64% to 34%. In January 2006, by a similar margin (61% to 36%), Democrats said it was unacceptable for the NSA to scrutinize phone calls and emails of suspected terrorists.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/...terror-tactic/
  #45  
Old Jun 11, '13, 11:44 am
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Default Re: Edward Snowdon: Hero or Traitor?

Neither. A publicity seeker who abandoned his Girlfriend and is now savoring every moment of his 15 minutes of fame
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