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  #16  
Old Jul 10, '13, 10:48 am
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livingwordunity livingwordunity is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Homosexual desire exists in nature, hence it is natural.
Original sin exists in the world, but it wasn't created by God. Homosexual attraction is disordered because it's part of how humanity became disordered through original sin. And we can know that homosexual attraction is not natural by just taking a look at how the male and female bodies are made to complement each other. When a husband and his wife join together in the marital embrace the two literally become one flesh. And when a baby is conceived between them the two becoming one flesh becomes even more literal.
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Pope Francis warns against dangers of 'adolescent progressivism'
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  #17  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:01 am
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donna369 donna369 is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Homosexual desire exists in nature, hence it is natural.

rossum


while homosexual acts do occur in nature animals are not homosexual, merely opportunistic. animals don't have morals and don't care where they get sex as long as they do when they get the opportunity. humans however, have morals and a tendency to care about where they get sex. humans can resist base desires. humans can reason. humans have innate morality born of the fact that God placed it in us. we are God's creation in His image. homosexuality is not only unnatural, it is illogical and many homosexuals, male and female, act out in highly inappropriate manners that could be seen as not just deviant but psychologically disparate from the mainstream.
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  #18  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Homosexual desire exists in nature, hence it is natural.

rossum
It exists but is contrary to man's nature just as other disordered desires exist and yet are contrary to our nature.
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  #19  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:18 am
rossum rossum is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by livingwordunity View Post
Original sin exists in the world, but it wasn't created by God.
Two points. First, if God didn't create Original Sin and Original Sin exists, then there is at least one other creator besides God. God is not the only creator, but one among two (or more) creators.

Second, if you look at the top right of my posts, you will see that I am Buddhist. Sin is a Christian concept, not a Buddhist one. Hence arguing about any sin, including Original Sin, is irrelevant to me. Sin does not exist in Buddhism.

rossum
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  #20  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:20 am
rossum rossum is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by donna369 View Post
while homosexual acts do occur in nature animals are not homosexual, merely opportunistic. animals don't have morals and don't care where they get sex as long as they do when they get the opportunity. humans however, have morals and a tendency to care about where they get sex. humans can resist base desires. humans can reason. humans have innate morality born of the fact that God placed it in us. we are God's creation in His image. homosexuality is not only unnatural, it is illogical and many homosexuals, male and female, act out in highly inappropriate manners that could be seen as not just deviant but psychologically disparate from the mainstream.
You are making a very confused argument here. You say that homosexuality occurs in nature yet you also say that homosexuality is not natural. One or the other please, but not both.

rossum
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  #21  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:21 am
rossum rossum is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by fix View Post
It exists but is contrary to man's nature just as other disordered desires exist and yet are contrary to our nature.
It is not contrary to a homosexual person's nature.

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  #22  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:25 am
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InSearchofGrace InSearchofGrace is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Left handedness does impact on behaviour, such as what hand you write with, and being Icelandic is a willed occurrence.

Merely being in a minority or being willed does not suffice to make something a perversion. Virginity in adults is a minority condition and is willed...

rossum
Being left handed, blue-eyed, or choosing to live in Iceland have practical effect but no moral impact on the action of individuals, having no repercussion on society that can be considered negative. They are neutral.

Homosexual desire is disordered desire. Homosexual acts are disordered acts. Regardless that the State sanctions legalized homosexual unions or "marriages."
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  #23  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:26 am
Monkey1976 Monkey1976 is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
It is not contrary to a homosexual person's nature.

rossum
Can you point to the orifice in a male-male couple specifically designed with the primary purpose of accepting the male sex organ and its associated sperm?
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  #24  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:30 am
SamH SamH is offline
 
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Homosexual desire exists in nature, hence it is natural.

rossum
Bestiality also exists in nature.
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  #25  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:51 am
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livingwordunity livingwordunity is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
Two points. First, if God didn't create Original Sin and Original Sin exists, then there is at least one other creator besides God. God is not the only creator, but one among two (or more) creators.

Second, if you look at the top right of my posts, you will see that I am Buddhist. Sin is a Christian concept, not a Buddhist one. Hence arguing about any sin, including Original Sin, is irrelevant to me. Sin does not exist in Buddhism.

rossum
A heterosexual union normally produces babies. That's why the left is fighting so hard for contraception and abortion which are extreme attempts to counteract what is the normal result of the sexual union of a man and a woman. Most people agree that children, which are always the biological product of one man and one woman, are a beautiful thing. And even every homosexual is the product of such a union. A baby is normally the fruit of traditional marriage. So here's a question. Besides AIDS and other STDs, what fruit comes as a direct result of the homosexual act?
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“We must reaffirm the right of children to grow up in a family with a father and mother.” - Pope Francis
Pope Francis warns against dangers of 'adolescent progressivism'
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  #26  
Old Jul 10, '13, 11:58 am
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donna369 donna369 is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by rossum View Post
You are making a very confused argument here. You say that homosexuality occurs in nature yet you also say that homosexuality is not natural. One or the other please, but not both.

rossum
my statement on this in nature is that aimals are opportunistic they will have sex with any other of their kind for the most part. it is a homosexual act but the animal is not homosexual. it is just acting out sexually for its own pleasure without the use of reason.
even so, homosexuality is not natural because sex is the means of reproduction. this cannot occur in a homosexual act.
and there is only one creator. original sin was committed by people.
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  #27  
Old Jul 10, '13, 12:04 pm
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livingwordunity livingwordunity is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by donna369 View Post
my statement on this in nature is that aimals are opportunistic they will have sex with any other of their kind for the most part. it is a homosexual act but the animal is not homosexual. it is just acting out sexually for its own pleasure without the use of reason.
even so, homosexuality is not natural because sex is the means of reproduction. this cannot occur in a homosexual act.
and there is only one creator. original sin was committed by people.
Right. Animals basically rape each other. So the argument that we should act as animals makes no sense. And I wonder if they realize that they are degrading the human dignity of homosexuals as people by comparing them to animals? They degrade the human dignity of homosexuals in this way by suggesting that, like the animals, they can't control their impulses. It's a denial of our free will. And it's ironic that the same ones who say they are "Pro-Choice" say that homosexuals have no choice but to act on their most base impulses.
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Pope Francis warns against dangers of 'adolescent progressivism'

Last edited by livingwordunity; Jul 10, '13 at 12:17 pm.
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  #28  
Old Jul 10, '13, 12:06 pm
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donna369 donna369 is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by SamH View Post
Bestiality also exists in nature.
no. that would be an animal having sex with an animal not of its kind. like a dog with a cat.
beastiality is actually defined as a human having sex with an animal; another disordered act.
its where we get mermaids and unicorns from!
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  #29  
Old Jul 10, '13, 12:14 pm
rossum rossum is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by InSearchofGrace View Post
Being left handed, blue-eyed, or choosing to live in Iceland have practical effect but no moral impact on the action of individuals, having no repercussion on society that can be considered negative. They are neutral.
And in some non-Catholic moral systems homosexual acts are also morally neutral. Hence they should be treated the same as being left handed or being Icelandic.

You are entitled to your morals in your Church. Outside your Church, there is a different set of laws used in the general law of the country. In Catholic morality it is a sin (?a mortal sin?) to miss Sunday Mass without a valid excuse. The laws of both the USA and the UK ignore attendance at Sunday Mass.

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  #30  
Old Jul 10, '13, 12:22 pm
rossum rossum is offline
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Default Re: Homosexuality as a Perversion

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Originally Posted by Monkey1976 View Post
Can you point to the orifice in a male-male couple specifically designed with the primary purpose of accepting the male sex organ and its associated sperm?
So, I take it you have no objection to female homosexuality, where no sperm is involved?

I reject your use of "designed"; I prefer "evolved". I also have doubts about "primary" purpose. From the point of view of the organism, the primary purpose is pleasure. A dog does not think, "I will make puppies," it thinks more along the lines of, "this gives me pleasure." Any puppies are a side-effect of the dog's pleasure-seeking actions.

Many things have more than one "purpose". Trying to impose your purpose on someone who does not agree with it is a losing game. There are many people who think that man was designed for the primary purpose of worshipping Allah. Does that belief give them the right to impose their purpose on you?

rossum
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