Karl Keating's E-Letter of October 18, 2005

**Forum Admin** · #1 Oct 18, '05, 9:32 am

Karl's E-Letter of October 18, 2005

Topics:

"Homosexual" Or "Gay"?
Girls And Guys Within Spitting Distance At WYD
Late News On An Upcoming Liturgy Conference

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http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_051018.asp

Joel Ruiz-Dana · #2 Oct 18, '05, 10:14 am

You guys have got to check out all the other captions posted by that woman, they are a riot!

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Rev...5_FreeLove.htm

Courage Married · #3 Oct 18, '05, 10:18 am

Excellent article but I think I should clarify one thing as an actual member of Courage.

Most members of Courage don't call themselves homosexual or gay. We just say we have a same-sex attraction. This is due to the fact that both terms have associated baggage with them. Like you said homosexual has a different set of baggage then gay, but both have different things associated with them.

We are not gay, we are not homosexual. We are children of God that happen to have a certain degree of a same-sex attraction. Different members of the group have different levels of that attraction.

Some may have lived a gay lifestyle at one point, some may have never, all in the group are striving to live chaste lives according to the teachings of the church. Whatever that eventual calling is, be it a valid marriage, concecrated life, or a call to celibate/single life is between the individual, God, and his/her spiritual director.

Added - of course the original point still holds that gay and homosexual are words that shouldn't be used as synonyms.

trustmc · #4 Oct 18, '05, 10:24 am

I'm happy to see that some Catholics have taken up the tactics of our Protestant counter parts by going door to door, perhaps evangelizing and inviting others to mass. The reason why these tactics seem to be so successful for others is that their churches actually provide training on how to approach others -- sometimes mostly strangers -- in their own neighborhoods. If there is one thing to admire about the Evangelical Churches, it is their zeal for witnessing to others that is supported by church resources and clergy.

I recall from my wayward days how after visiting an Episcopal church and filling out a visitor's card in the pews, I was approached at my home by a team of evangelists bearing a gift bag, a book on loving Christ, and a request for discussing the current condition of my faith. It was obvious that this team had some very good training provided by their parish. How refreshing, I thought, and how unheard of in Catholic parishes. It's a wonder I found my way back to Rome.

Perhaps Catholic Answers can spearhead developing training videos or manuals that parishes across the country can use to train clerics and parishoners with the gift of evangelism on how to do the same. If the practice becomes commonplace, like with Mormons and JWs, then going door to door won't seem like such an oddity worth mentioning in the weekly emails.

Mike

contemplative · #5 Oct 18, '05, 10:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Ruiz-Dana

You guys have got to check out all the other captions posted by that woman, they are a riot!

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Rev...5_FreeLove.htm

The photos on this page are less appealing
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Rev...5_Colognel.htm
WYD 2005 doesn't look like anything my young adult kids would ever 'get into'. They would have a difficult time associating a fast, frenzied, crowded time with spiritual growth. I suppose though, anything is possible.

Caption these pictures anyway you like. I think it all looks kinda unappealing. The liturgical dancers around the Holy Euchararist exposed in the monstrance looks.......well.....you fill in the blank.
And I don't care much for the tatoo artist painting a cross on someone's belly. Were there street vending tatoo artists? Dangerous

It is impossible to express my opinion on one woman's photos. Can anyone who went to WYD 2005 offer some feedback on these pictures?

Quote:

At each World Youth Day Catholic Answers has distributed hundreds of thousands of booklets. For years this has been a major project of ours, and we have been glad for the chance to reach so many young people.

I trust this booklet has good sound direction for these young people. It may be the best thing they take home with them from WYD. Hopefully they will read it.

Also I make the mistake of interchanging homosexual and gay now and then. I try to be careful.

RBW · #6 Oct 18, '05, 11:45 am

The woman needs to get a life,,,,it would appear to me that she is searching for negative things to say,seems a bit prudish to me,,,,I

Supergirl · #7 Oct 18, '05, 12:29 pm

ACK!!! Girls in shorts!

Even worse, they're so excited to see the Pope that they're actually running into the water to get a closer view!

What is the world coming to these days?!!!

young whippersnappers...

lozano · #8 Oct 18, '05, 1:21 pm

Yup, that's a problem!

In a similar vein to the WYD photos, at her site she's also posted photos http://www.traditioninaction.org/Rev...RockChurch.htm this of "rock" dance at a St. Alphonsis Liguori "Rock" church.

While the liturgical dance may be problematic (I'll leave that for others to decide), it's just silly to be so worked up about the name. Yes, the nickname for St. Alphonsus Liguori is the "Rock" church. It refers to the rocks that were used to build the church, not any particular type of music. I.e. actual boulders. The nickname was given to the church by the construction workers in 1867.

The few times I went to Mass at "the Rock" church we found the community to be very serious indeed, with people attending who really were seeking to know and serve Jesus better.

Are we not enjoined by the Apostle Paul "to fit our answers to the needs of each one"? When we can do that in cultural terms without compromising truth then we should - actually we must do so. That is the only way we will fulfill the command to "preach the Gospel to all men".

It seems that we often get stuck in equal and opposite errors as Catholics, both revolving around confusion between "Tradition" (truth) and "tradition" (cultural habit).

On the one hand there are those of us who freely condem those whose style of music, dress, hair, etc. are not our own, without regard to the content of their faith. Many problems result.

On the other hand there are those of us who are all too willing to compromise truth in seeking out converts, in making the faith relevant. Many different problems result from this.

Both groups of "Catholics" really get into trouble when they reject the authority of the church to reveal the truth. What's ironic is that both errors, in the end, really have the same result - preventing the legitimate building of the Body of Christ here on earth.

That is at least one reason why submission to the Magesterium is so crucial for each of us. I for one know that I cannot trust my ego in something so crucial as this.

Joel Ruiz-Dana · #9 Oct 18, '05, 1:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by contemplative

And I don't care much for the tatoo artist painting a cross on someone's belly. Were there street vending tatoo artists? Dangerous

Hmm. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think that she just got a tatoo. I don't see a needle at the end of the ink gun, plus there's ink all over the guy's fingers-I think that was just an air brush and a moment before the photo was taken, there was some sort of stencil placed over the girl's belly and the design spray painted over it. Yes, silly and perhaps somewhate tastless, but I used to be 19 myself once too!

Lovemyfaith · #10 Oct 18, '05, 3:27 pm

"the guy does have goofy looking hair, but at least he's a Catholic punk" I am still laughing at that quote.

contemplative · #11 Oct 18, '05, 4:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Ruiz-Dana

Hmm. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think that she just got a tatoo. I don't see a needle at the end of the ink gun, plus there's ink all over the guy's fingers-I think that was just an air brush and a moment before the photo was taken, there was some sort of stencil placed over the girl's belly and the design spray painted over it. Yes, silly and perhaps somewhate tastless, but I used to be 19 myself once too!

I've never had a tatooo or ink air brush used on me....don't know what either looks like. I assumed it was a tatoo needle....because I was looking at a tatoo-like picture.

I'll rephrase my question.

Were there WYD street vending airbrush artists painting crosses on bare bellies of consenting young Catholic women?

jvanderz · #12 Oct 18, '05, 4:09 pm

I wasn't at world youth day 2005 but I have been to one.

Yes there are a lot of crowds when you are at the organized events but what is missed from all these photos is that we all stay at different locations at night.

What I remember most in travelling to Denver was all the praise and worship singing on the bus and having a small daily mass in the morning with our group of 30 and praying together in the evenings...also going for the long trek in the crazy heat

What we all brought back in our team was a renewed excitement in the church and wanting to participate more fully in the celebration of mass. Both of which are fantastic.

Cheers
Jenn

Cathy · #13 Oct 18, '05, 4:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustmc

I'm happy to see that some Catholics have taken up the tactics of our Protestant counter parts by going door to door, perhaps evangelizing and inviting others to mass. ...I recall from my wayward days how after visiting an Episcopal church and filling out a visitor's card in the pews, I was approached at my home by a team of evangelists bearing a gift bag, a book on loving Christ, and a request for discussing the current condition of my faith. Mike

Before I became Catholic, I joined several Protestant churches in various cities in California. In every case we were visited by someone in the church. Two times, we were visited by the pastors themselves. One hot summer day, when our windows were wide open, I reassured my college-student husband that I'd soon find a job in the town to which we had just moved. I didn't know that the pastor of the church we had recently visited was walking up to our door and heard my comment. Within a week, I had a job through one of his contacts in the church.

I've done a bit of door-to-dooring myself, and the only training I've received has been alongside a fellow worker. I think I would do it differently as a Catholic. I'd be more "laid back" I think...trusting more that God would do the main work, even that He's already laid the foundation and prepared the way for me. I have seen that there are people out there hungry to talk about God. Personally, I enjoy having a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness come to my door so I can share my faith with them. But it's been several years since they have come. I wonder if they've warned their friends about the lady who keeps handing out Catholic literature when they come to her door.

matthewstivison · #14 Oct 18, '05, 4:13 pm

I am intriuged by the Youth Day observation. Yes, it is great to see so many exited youth. However the Church is supposed to be a place to improve yourself, to be more Holy. Not that we should make them all wear burkas but what message is a person sending when they get tatoos or a punk hair style. "look at me, look at me look at me, but dont look at me and judge me. This is the modern inigma that we have all fallen to at some point. The hairdo is not a birth defect, it is a purposeful choice, intended to portray a message. And what message are we supposed to derive from this? I would be more impressed to see someone as exited about thier faith as they are about an "alternative lifestyle."
As for the fact that at least he is a Catholic punk, so was John Gotti.
Call me prude.......
Matt

tomconvery · #15 Oct 18, '05, 4:49 pm

I found Carl's analysis of the WYD pictures posted on Marian Horvat's Tradition in Action website to be amusing so I clicked the link to see for myself how such a relatively wholesome event attended by youth so serious about their faith could be so poorly received. The site would be amusing if its owner was not so apparently incapable of conceding that there is good anywhere in God's Church. The pictures with critical (and even flatly uncharitable) captions are extensive and treat a wide spectrum of figures, diocese, and practices.

Marian Horvat shows herself for what she truly is when she criticizes the prelates and JP2 for wearing rainbow trimmed vestments at WYD1997. Marian takes this as an endorsement of homosexuals who adopted a rainbow symbol in 1978. She apparently never read in the bible that over 4000 years ago, God gave his people the rainbow as a covenant sign. If the gay movement decided to adopt a cross as part of their symbol would Marian repudiate Jesus Christ?