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  #1  
Old Jul 27, '13, 12:01 pm
BostonStrong BostonStrong is offline
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Default The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

If I recall, one of them mocked Jesus, the other did not, and Jesus told the one who had faith that he would soon be in paradise- what details are known about these two men? My impression as only one of them went to Heaven. The lesson for me is it's never to late to find faith in Jesus
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  #2  
Old Jul 27, '13, 12:07 pm
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dronald dronald is online now
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Originally Posted by BostonStrong View Post
If I recall, one of them mocked Jesus, the other did not, and Jesus told the one who had faith that he would soon be in paradise- what details are known about these two men? My impression as only one of them went to Heaven. The lesson for me is it's never to late to find faith in Jesus
That's not true, they both mocked Jesus. No information is given as to why in the last moments the thief on the cross had a change of heart and confessed his Faith in Jesus and His innocence.

And with him they crucified two bandits, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by derided him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself, and come down from the cross!’ In the same way the chief priests, along with the scribes, were also mocking him among themselves and saying, ‘He saved others; he cannot save himself. Let the Messiah, the King of Israel, come down from the cross now, so that we may see and believe.’ Those who were crucified with him also taunted him. [Mark 15:27-32

Then two bandits were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by derided him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross.’ In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking him, saying, ‘He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he wants to; for he said, “I am God’s Son.”‘ The bandits who were crucified with him also taunted him in the same way. [Matthew 27:38-44

One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, ‘Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us! But the other rebuked him, saying, ‘Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.’ [Luke 23:39-43
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Old Jul 27, '13, 12:13 pm
BostonStrong BostonStrong is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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That's not true, they both mocked Jesus. No information is given as to why in the last moments the thief on the cross had a change of heart and confessed his Faith in Jesus and His innocence.

And with him they crucified two bandits, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by derided him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself, and come down from the cross!’ In the same way the chief priests, along with the scribes, were also mocking him among themselves and saying, ‘He saved others; he cannot save himself. Let the Messiah, the King of Israel, come down from the cross now, so that we may see and believe.’ Those who were crucified with him also taunted him. [Mark 15:27-32

Then two bandits were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by derided him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross.’ In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking him, saying, ‘He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he wants to; for he said, “I am God’s Son.”‘ The bandits who were crucified with him also taunted him in the same way. [Matthew 27:38-44

One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, ‘Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us! But the other rebuked him, saying, ‘Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.’ [Luke 23:39-43

Thank you very much ! Does this mean Jesus forgave both men? Yet they mocked him- in the end did they have faith in Jesus?

When Jesus said "‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.’ [Luke 23:39-43 }", was he referring to both men, or just one?
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Old Jul 27, '13, 12:13 pm
sousley sousley is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Originally Posted by BostonStrong View Post
If I recall, one of them mocked Jesus, the other did not, and Jesus told the one who had faith that he would soon be in paradise- what details are known about these two men? My impression as only one of them went to Heaven. The lesson for me is it's never to late to find faith in Jesus
That's a good lesson, not only just to find but also deepen. The parable of the workers in Matt 20 comes to mind as a good one too.

Here is a link that talks a little about the good thief, traditionally called Dismas. Generally, it is written to address issues like baptism and purgatory, but it's a good read.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/art...he-dismas-case

God Bless
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  #5  
Old Jul 27, '13, 12:25 pm
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

See the following image below - it is a variation on an Orthodox sometimes called a calvary cross - the crossbeam at the bottom slants up to the right as is common on many Orthodox and Byzantine crucifixes, this symbolizes the acceptance of the penitent thief. The skull and bones (also found in Catholic religions art) symbolises the tradition that Adam was buried at Golgotha. The penitent thief is sometimes given the name Dismas, in the Russian Orthodox Church he is referenced as Rach. There are a number of traditions in various Churches about him.



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Old Jul 27, '13, 12:31 pm
BostonStrong BostonStrong is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

Is it possible the thief who had faith believed in one god above, but had no idea who Jesus really was?
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Old Jul 27, '13, 12:36 pm
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Is it possible the thief who had faith believed in one god above, but had no idea who Jesus really was?
If he did not understand by reason I would say the passage in the Bible suggests divine revelation at work. Also a number of commentators over the centuries have suggested that he may have been a follower of Christ who had drifted away and fallen into evil.
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Old Jul 27, '13, 5:25 pm
BostonStrong BostonStrong is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
See the following image below - it is a variation on an Orthodox sometimes called a calvary cross - the crossbeam at the bottom slants up to the right as is common on many Orthodox and Byzantine crucifixes, this symbolizes the acceptance of the penitent thief. The skull and bones (also found in Catholic religions art) symbolises the tradition that Adam was buried at Golgotha. The penitent thief is sometimes given the name Dismas, in the Russian Orthodox Church he is referenced as Rach. There are a number of traditions in various Churches about him.



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thanks for the info, I didn't know this
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  #9  
Old Jul 30, '13, 8:10 am
sirach2v4 sirach2v4 is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

Quote:
Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
See the following image below - it is a variation on an Orthodox sometimes called a calvary cross - the crossbeam at the bottom slants up to the right as is common on many Orthodox and Byzantine crucifixes, this symbolizes the acceptance of the penitent thief. The skull and bones (also found in Catholic religions art) symbolises the tradition that Adam was buried at Golgotha. The penitent thief is sometimes given the name Dismas, in the Russian Orthodox Church he is referenced as Rach. There are a number of traditions in various Churches about him.



the image of calvary with a skull at the base was explained to me long ago as being the skull of Adam. But, scripturally, it seems that this may have been Goliath's skull, as the
OT relates that David took it to Jerusalem and buried it there someplace. I think that location was well-known both historically and by tradition. The place was known as the place of the skull.
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Old Jul 30, '13, 8:13 am
sirach2v4 sirach2v4 is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Originally Posted by BostonStrong View Post
If I recall, one of them mocked Jesus, the other did not, and Jesus told the one who had faith that he would soon be in paradise- what details are known about these two men? My impression as only one of them went to Heaven. The lesson for me is it's never to late to find faith in Jesus
I would offer my personal theological explanation of the criminals crucified with Jesus.

the most significant death in the world was that of Jesus Christ. All other deaths are related to his. Calvary is a "picture" of how a person can be united with Jesus in suffering and death. It's also a picture of someone who mocks Jesus and faces an oblivion after death.
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  #11  
Old Jul 31, '13, 7:01 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: The 2 sinners who were cruicified next to Jesus

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Originally Posted by sirach2v4 View Post
the image of calvary with a skull at the base was explained to me long ago as being the skull of Adam. But, scripturally, it seems that this may have been Goliath's skull, as the
OT relates that David took it to Jerusalem and buried it there someplace. I think that location was well-known both historically and by tradition. The place was known as the place of the skull.
No, 1 Samuel 17:54 doesn't say that David buried Goliath's severed head ("And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armor in his tent"). In fact, that passage is very difficult - since first of all, Jerusalem would have still been a Jebusite city by then. We don't know what happened to the head (did David keep it as a trophy? Did he use it as a warning against potential foes? Did he present it to the Jebusites?); in 17:57 we are told that "as soon as David returned from the striking down of the Philistine, Abner took him, and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand."

I'm aware of the connection some people are trying to make between 'Goliath' and 'Golgotha' (supposedly a mixed form of 'Goliath' and 'Gath') but I don't find it entirely convincing. The name גָּלְיָת (Gāləyāṯ) is of uncertain origin (it is probably non-Semitic), although some connect it with two names attested from the Philistine settlement of Tell es-Safi (the biblical Gath) alwt and wlt, which in turn is linked with the Lydian name Alyattes. Golgotha, on the other hand, is probably from Aramaic גלגלתא gűlgaltâ and the Hebrew גֻּלְגֹּלֶת gulgōleṯ, 'skull'.
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