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  #1  
Old Aug 14, '13, 12:58 pm
Wakko9001 Wakko9001 is offline
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Default Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Let me start off by saying that I do not applaud homosexual acts. I believe what the Bible teaches, just as any following Christian would.

However, I also do not applaud how Putin is handling homosexuality... at all. For instance, I found this article (through George Takei on Facebook - oh, my) that a news anchor was fired just because he admitted to being gay. And that is, in no way, the worst of it. You can get roundhoused by guards and officials just for mentioning "gay". Putin might have good intents, but those intents are all thrown away by this persecution and humiliation of homosexuals.

The worst part, is that I see some Christians on these forums, praising Putin for this law. And this is well after all of this violence was reported. These people are saying things like, "Putin has taken a step in the right direction," or "Putin is definitely better than Obama." The truth is... they're both endorsing unjust deeds - just on different spectrums. Obama wants homosexual marriages to be legal, while Putin is treating homosexuals like they're all monsters. This will probably sound wrong and offensive, but this type of persecution is why Christians are being persecuted. Homosexuality is a very touchy, personal thing, and it should be dealt with through Catholic love and understanding. Russia's law isn't a step in the right direction - it's fear.

And yes, I know the difference between being against gay marriage, and hatred.

I understand that some of you will say, "As long as the sin is being condemned, the law should continue." Okay, but do you really want all of this violence and discrimination to continue, which comes along with this law?

Please, I'd be very happy to debate the situation, I'm just angry that this type of discrimination can be allowed. Thank you, and God bless.
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  #2  
Old Aug 14, '13, 1:36 pm
TheWarriorMonk TheWarriorMonk is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

We tend to look at issues with our western mindset, and judge people based on that mindset. People forget that certain things are not acceptable in other societies. If these people that support actions that are unacceptable to a particular society push their agenda, the government might just push right back. Not every society folds over every moral issues like modern western society does.
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  #3  
Old Aug 14, '13, 2:10 pm
Lucius Marius Lucius Marius is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

In Eastern Europe we are less tolerant, in the western sense. I come from Poland, for example, and let me tell you that an average man on a steet does not have this 'live and let live' perspective that is common in England, for example. Think of America 50 or 100 years ago. Now, in Poland we often say that the Russians always take everything to the extreme... and don't think they respond with violence to homosexuals only! They don't. Fighting and violence is common in this part of the world. Now, as to it being right or wrong I don't wish to comment as I have not given it sufficient thought.
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  #4  
Old Aug 14, '13, 2:12 pm
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Corki Corki is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

I think you see people praising the Russian legal situation because it is SO much better than what we have in the US. It's not perfect and it has the potential to be abused but it is a big improvement over the legal propagandizing and forced sexualization that we have here.
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  #5  
Old Aug 14, '13, 2:16 pm
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McCall1981 McCall1981 is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarriorMonk View Post
We tend to look at issues with our western mindset, and judge people based on that mindset. People forget that certain things are not acceptable in other societies. If these people that support actions that are unacceptable to a particular society push their agenda, the government might just push right back. Not every society folds over every moral issues like modern western society does.
Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corki View Post
I think you see people praising the Russian legal situation because it is SO much better than what we have in the US. It's not perfect and it has the potential to be abused but it is a big improvement over the legal propagandizing and forced sexualization that we have here.
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  #6  
Old Aug 14, '13, 2:20 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

I have nothing particularly against sodomy laws and I think it is only common decency to keep obscene acts off the public streets and TV. However, if it is true that people are being punished simply because of their unchosen sexual orientation, or if law enforcement is responding in an exaggerated and oppressive way to stray imprudent comments about one's sexuality, then it does seem to me that something is wrong.

Also I am afraid that the reaction against this may make things worse instead of better, at least here in the West but perhaps in Russia too.
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  #7  
Old Aug 14, '13, 2:44 pm
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JM3 JM3 is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakko9001 View Post
Russia's law isn't a step in the right direction - it's fear.

Perhaps a study of what the law actually is would help. Freedom of the press seems to be controlling the opinions people have.

http://www.inquisitr.com/883198/russ...2014-olympics/

How does this

Quote:
Mutko was clear that the new law doesn’t forbid gays from participating in the Olymipics, saying: ”The corresponding law doesn’t forbid non-traditional orientation, but other things: propaganda, involvement of minors and young people.”
become this?

Quote:
What do you think about the new Russian anti-gay law? Do you think it is wrong for the government of Russia to get involved and punish people for their sexual orientation?
I see Russia protecting its children. Why is that wrong?
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  #8  
Old Aug 14, '13, 3:04 pm
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SwizzleStick SwizzleStick is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

OP, here's a recent and fairly lengthy thread where this topic was discussed. You may be interested in reading it.

I'm really worrtied with what's going on in Russia in regards to homosexuality
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=811215
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  #9  
Old Aug 14, '13, 3:13 pm
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livingwordunity livingwordunity is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

What led to the Russian government cracking down on offensive protests was a punk band (whose name is too offensive to say) who disrupted a Russian Orthodox Mass with their loud and obscene protesting which scandalized children as well as adults who were there to worship God and not to be scandalized. "Gay" activist protesters do extreme things like staging screaming naked protests with blasphemous obscenities written on their naked bodies.
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  #10  
Old Aug 14, '13, 4:07 pm
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SuperLuigi SuperLuigi is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakko9001 View Post
Let me start off by saying that I do not applaud homosexual acts. I believe what the Bible teaches, just as any following Christian would.

However, I also do not applaud how Putin is handling homosexuality... at all. For instance, I found this article (through George Takei on Facebook - oh, my) that a news anchor was fired just because he admitted to being gay. And that is, in no way, the worst of it. You can get roundhoused by guards and officials just for mentioning "gay". Putin might have good intents, but those intents are all thrown away by this persecution and humiliation of homosexuals.

The worst part, is that I see some Christians on these forums, praising Putin for this law. And this is well after all of this violence was reported. These people are saying things like, "Putin has taken a step in the right direction," or "Putin is definitely better than Obama." The truth is... they're both endorsing unjust deeds - just on different spectrums. Obama wants homosexual marriages to be legal, while Putin is treating homosexuals like they're all monsters. This will probably sound wrong and offensive, but this type of persecution is why Christians are being persecuted. Homosexuality is a very touchy, personal thing, and it should be dealt with through Catholic love and understanding. Russia's law isn't a step in the right direction - it's fear.

And yes, I know the difference between being against gay marriage, and hatred.

I understand that some of you will say, "As long as the sin is being condemned, the law should continue." Okay, but do you really want all of this violence and discrimination to continue, which comes along with this law?

Please, I'd be very happy to debate the situation, I'm just angry that this type of discrimination can be allowed. Thank you, and God bless.
I think a lot of people in general have a problem on the internet talking about things without reading the forum or article they are posting about.

The Russian law is actually quite harsh and says that both those for or against so-called "gay marriage" cannot publicly protest.

The "good intentions" you speak of are what buries liberty time after time after and it's a lesson that American will perhaps soon learn.

The Church has made it clear many times that homosexuals should not be discriminated against. Of course, the progressives will use that to advance to their agenda without really understanding the meaning which is frankly pathetic; on this side note, if so-called "gay marriage" is so great, why can't it stand on its own merits?

But what the Church means is human dignity must be respected and that so-called "gay marriage" must be opposed .
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  #11  
Old Aug 16, '13, 11:28 am
marymary1975 marymary1975 is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

First I want to bring your attention to the place where we are talking: Russia!!! That means different culture, different ideas, different values. What you consider very valuable in the US it may mean nothing in foreign culture. There is a famous anti imperialist song in Latin America that says MR, US don't come here to impose your ideas because here things are not like in your cold land. When I went to China I was highly surprised that people in China don't consider themselves oppressed. Same happened when I went to the middle east and spoke to several Muslim women (who I think are oppressed) they don't think they are oppressed and in fact they think that women in the US are crazy. I mean I don't agree with it, but you cannot go into a different country and force your occidental mentality In a foreign country. People in Russia have very different values than us, whether they are right or wrong is a totally different answer but you just can't go there and impose your values because you think yours are better than them.

The second part you need to think about is that Putin's actions are a response to external presures from international organizations and the US to force them.to pass specific laws. This happens all the time in thirds world countries and western Europe. International institutions conditions financial aid into the country passing x, y and z legislation. This was how homosexual marriage was passed in Argentina. And the same happens in many country. The international institutions pushes for certain countries to pass gay marriage legislation and what happens is in places like Russia, where they are fed up with imperialism, they answer with legislation like this as a way to show that you can't come.here and impose your mentality in my country (which the us has done since I can remember).

Finally I think the reason why people applaud putin is precisely because he is sticking to his guns and he is not letting the gay lobby dictate what happens in his country, versus the US where Obama does whatever the gay lobby says. Is putin being extreme and could have he used better ways? I am sure. But the point is he is not letting the gay lobby to manipulate him and is sending a very strong warning: don't mess with me because I am not afraid of you. Unfortunately, his position is radical but he is responding to others pushing their views in his country.
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  #12  
Old Aug 18, '13, 6:12 am
Seamus L Seamus L is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Part of the problem is that we have a large number of people, Catholics included, who now subscribe to a modern Western secular viewpoint and not that of Christian tradition. People in San Francisco, London, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, etc have no conception of how offensive it is to openly promote homosexuality in places like Russia, Poland, Belarus, Serbia, Georgia, etc.
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  #13  
Old Aug 18, '13, 7:27 am
St Francis St Francis is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

I think there is a fine line between protecting morality and discriminating which we in the West have decided is completely unimportant because any imposition of restrictions on people that cannot be defended on liberal terms is irrational bigotry.

We think the Russian law has gone too far... they think we have allowed freedom to become license.

This pursuit of freedom is actually not a Catholic thing--it is an "Enlightenment" thing. Catholics believe in freedom, but in a much narrower sense than do the heirs of the so-called Enlightenment. Freedom, like everything else in this world, is something to be used to attain Heaven; when freedom interferes with that, it should be dropped from our lives.

People should be free from the excesses of homosexual activism: the homosexual "pride" parades, the proselitization of our children, etc. Sin is enslaving, so promotion of sinful behavior is not liberating people but enslaving them.

OTOH, assault is assault. It is not for individuals to be enforcing things--that is way we have police, so we don't have blood running in the streets.

Homosexuality as an idea should not be tolerated at all. Homosexual persons should be treated with dignity and as needed, helped, but not enabled.
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  #14  
Old Aug 18, '13, 8:01 am
Mulligan2 Mulligan2 is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corki View Post
I think you see people praising the Russian legal situation because it is SO much better than what we have in the US.
Really?? Threatening to put people who disagree with you in jail is better than the First Amendment?
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  #15  
Old Aug 18, '13, 8:12 am
Buck Crosswhite Buck Crosswhite is offline
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Default Re: Russian Laws on Homosexuality

I think I'll move to Russia.
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