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  #1  
Old Aug 25, '13, 11:26 am
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default What does it mean?

Hello fellow believers in Christ.
I am not a Catholic but would like to understand your faith a little better. I am 33 years old and I am a Christian. I dont know how to navigate these forums very well and hopefully I will not make any one here mad by posting in the wrong section. I have a few questions hopefully some one can answer.
Question 1: Why do people kneel to the pope and kiss his ring? From what I do know it is a sign of respect because Jesus is with him, but if any one were to accept Jesus as their savior
Jesus dwells with that person. I personally believe that kneeling before a man appointed by the people is wrong. Am I wrong in this ?
Question 2: Is it wrong to think that Mary mother of Jesus weeps in heaven because she is prayed to like God? I would see her as so humbled to bear Jesus Christ on earth that she would not want her name prayed to. Is she not treated like a God in your faith or am I wrong here?
Question 3: Why is saying so many hail mary's a punishment for sin when Jesus died for our sins?
I do not want to seem smug or like a trouble maker. I just like other people's point of views and I like to be tolerant of other religions and learn as much as I can about them.
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  #2  
Old Aug 25, '13, 11:35 am
Jozefo Jozefo is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Hello fellow believers in Christ.
I am not a Catholic but would like to understand your faith a little better. I am 33 years old and I am a Christian. I dont know how to navigate these forums very well and hopefully I will not make any one here mad by posting in the wrong section. I have a few questions hopefully some one can answer.
Question 1: Why do people kneel to the pope and kiss his ring? From what I do know it is a sign of respect because Jesus is with him, but if any one were to accept Jesus as their savior
Jesus dwells with that person. I personally believe that kneeling before a man appointed by the people is wrong. Am I wrong in this ?
Question 2: Is it wrong to think that Mary mother of Jesus weeps in heaven because she is prayed to like God? I would see her as so humbled to bear Jesus Christ on earth that she would not want her name prayed to. Is she not treated like a God in your faith or am I wrong here?
Question 3: Why is saying so many hail mary's a punishment for sin when Jesus died for our sins?
I do not want to seem smug or like a trouble maker. I just like other people's point of views and I like to be tolerant of other religions and learn as much as I can about them.
I had the same trouble with kneeling, before I became converted. But today I see it as a token of respect, and doing proper homage.

Regarding Mary, she is not prayed to like God, unless someone doesn't understand what her role is. She is an intercessor, just like me asking you to pray for me.

Doing pennance is not being punished, in my opinion. It's simply making reparation. If you owe a debt, it might be forgiven, but you still owe praise and thanksgiving.

To more knowledgeable people: if I've mispoken please correct me.
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  #3  
Old Aug 25, '13, 11:47 am
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Is Mary given the authority to hear your prayers in heaven? Would she be burdened with millions of prayer request after serving her time on earth? If I understand correctly once a person enters heaven they are not troubled with earthly problems any more.

And also how would Hailing Mary be considered praise? I guess my question here that I try to ask my self is, If I were a woman and chosen with the blessing to bear the son of Jesus Christ would I want to be held to the standards that your church holds Mary. I would like to think of my self so humble I would not want my name mentioned in a prayer to God. If im wrong correct me but what turned me here asking questions is thinking about the bible. It says not to use many words or repetition when praying. Or idol worshiping but from the outside of the Catholic faith it seems that so much of this goes on.
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  #4  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:00 pm
Jozefo Jozefo is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Is Mary given the authority to hear your prayers in heaven? Would she be burdened with millions of prayer request after serving her time on earth? If I understand correctly once a person enters heaven they are not troubled with earthly problems any more.

And also how would Hailing Mary be considered praise? I guess my question here that I try to ask my self is, If I were a woman and chosen with the blessing to bear the son of Jesus Christ would I want to be held to the standards that your church holds Mary. I would like to think of my self so humble I would not want my name mentioned in a prayer to God. If im wrong correct me but what turned me here asking questions is thinking about the bible. It says not to use many words or repetition when praying. Or idol worshiping but from the outside of the Catholic faith it seems that so much of this goes on.
There's a lot here to consider, so I apologize for not addressing every question completely. But I think it's better to take things slower, so there's less chance of misunderstanding or missing something important.

You ask if she's given authority to hear prayers while in heaven. The obvious answer is yes, since we're all exhorted to pray for one another. But I see that her being in heaven is really what you're concern is. In Revelation:
Quote:
5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
So we see the prayers are offered in heaven by elders. Mary, also being Queen of heaven, certainly has authority to intercede for us.

Now regarding praise to Mary, saying "hail Mary" is repeating Elizabeth's greeting in Luke. The 'Hail Mary" is very scriptural, and we offer our prayers out of love, but not adoration.

I hope this helps.
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  #5  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:05 pm
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SteveVH SteveVH is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

First, welcome to CAF. If you are serious about wanting to understand Catholicism a little better, you're in the right place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Question 1: Why do people kneel to the pope and kiss his ring? From what I do know it is a sign of respect because Jesus is with him, but if any one were to accept Jesus as their savior Jesus dwells with that person. I personally believe that kneeling before a man appointed by the people is wrong. Am I wrong in this ?
It is nothing more than a sign of respect to the vicar of Christ. Interestingly, there have been many popes who have asked people not to kneel before them. And the pope is not appointed by the people. He is chosen by the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Question 2: Is it wrong to think that Mary mother of Jesus weeps in heaven because she is prayed to like God?
Yes it is wrong to think that because she is not in heaven weeping because she is prayed to like God for the simple reason that she is never prayed to like God. We ask her to intercede for us; to pray for us to her Son. Mary is a human being. She is not God. Therefore she is not to be worshipped as God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
I would see her as so humbled to bear Jesus Christ on earth that she would not want her name prayed to. Is she not treated like a God in your faith or am I wrong here?
Yes, you are very wrong. She is rightly honored as the mother of God; the mother of Jesus Christ our Lord. And if we, as the Church, are the Body of Christ then she has become our mother as well. To honor her is one the commandments of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Question 3: Why is saying so many hail mary's a punishment for sin when Jesus died for our sins?
Why would you consider praying to be a punishment? If that were the penance given to someone they would only be asking Mary to pray for them to help them overcome a certain sin, for instance. It certainly is not a punishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
I do not want to seem smug or like a trouble maker. I just like other people's point of views and I like to be tolerant of other religions and learn as much as I can about them.
It is evident from your questions that you are grossly ignorant of the Catholic faith. If you are serious about learning the truth of our beliefs then you certainly are no trouble maker. These questions have been asked and answered thousands of times on this forum.
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  #6  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:16 pm
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

You are correct in saying I am ignorant of the catholic faith. That is why I am here to understand. It says in the bible Mary was blessed but so are other women in the bible. I feel in my heart that Mary holds a high place in Gods heart but I am unsure about praying to her. Even if the saints are praying for Human kind in Heaven does this mean they hear our prayers? From what I have been taught is Jesus is the only way to God. My other thought is If I was Jesus and could hear every prayer and take it to my father, would I burden my mother in heaven who is in paradise with something I can do my self?
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  #7  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:25 pm
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SteveVH SteveVH is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Is Mary given the authority to hear your prayers in heaven?
Not only Mary, but all of the saints in heaven can hear our prayers. We do not believe that we are separated by our brothers and sisters in heaven by death. They are not dead, but very much alive and they pray for us that we might join them in heaven. This doctrine is called the "Communion of Saints". You should research that term from the Catholic position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Would she be burdened with millions of prayer request after serving her time on earth? If I understand correctly once a person enters heaven they are not troubled with earthly problems any more.
Burdened? Mary is the mother of the Church because she is the mother of Christ. She has children still on earth, working out their salvation. Do you really think it is a burden for her to plea to God on their behalf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
And also how would Hailing Mary be considered praise?
Maybe you should ask the angel Gabriel. We are only repeating the angel's words. "Hail, full of grace..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
I guess my question here that I try to ask my self is, If I were a woman and chosen with the blessing to bear the son of Jesus Christ
She did not bear the son of Jesus Christ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
would I want to be held to the standards that your church holds Mary.
What standard? Do you mean that all nations shall call her blessed? Do you think we place a burden on Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
I would like to think of my self so humble I would not want my name mentioned in a prayer to God. If im wrong correct me but what turned me here asking questions is thinking about the bible. It says not to use many words or repetition when praying. Or idol worshiping but from the outside of the Catholic faith it seems that so much of this goes on.
As I said, your knowledge of what we really believe is abysmal. The rosary is a meditation on the life of Christ and is the most biblical prayer that I know, other than the Lord's Prayer. We meditate on certain mysteries of Christ's life. The "Hail Marys" are background music to the dance we have with our Lord. They help us keep our focus. And if you will take a close look you will find that the "Hail Mary" is taken 100% from the Bible. The only thing we have added is to ask her to pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

Please give me an example of idol worship in the Catholic Church?
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  #8  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:32 pm
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

In Luke written in red it was made clear not to put to much emphasis on the Mother.
Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou has sucked. But he said, Yea rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.
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  #9  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:34 pm
Jozefo Jozefo is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozefo View Post
There's a lot here to consider, so I apologize for not addressing every question completely. But I think it's better to take things slower, so there's less chance of misunderstanding or missing something important.

You ask if she's given authority to hear prayers while in heaven. The obvious answer is yes, since we're all exhorted to pray for one another. But I see that her being in heaven is really what you're concern is. In Revelation:
So we see the prayers are offered in heaven by elders. Mary, also being Queen of heaven, certainly has authority to intercede for us.

Now regarding praise to Mary, saying "hail Mary" is repeating Elizabeth's greeting in Luke. The 'Hail Mary" is very scriptural, and we offer our prayers out of love, but not adoration.

I hope this helps.
Oops, I meant to say Gabriel. Oh well lol.
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  #10  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:35 pm
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

and i meant the son of God* I have a lot of questions and type to quickly. I understand that all nations will call her blessed. She truly had to be blessed to bear the son of God. What I am looking for is where it says to ask her to pray for us.
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  #11  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:39 pm
Jozefo Jozefo is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
You are correct in saying I am ignorant of the catholic faith. That is why I am here to understand. It says in the bible Mary was blessed but so are other women in the bible. I feel in my heart that Mary holds a high place in Gods heart but I am unsure about praying to her. Even if the saints are praying for Human kind in Heaven does this mean they hear our prayers? From what I have been taught is Jesus is the only way to God. My other thought is If I was Jesus and could hear every prayer and take it to my father, would I burden my mother in heaven who is in paradise with something I can do my self?
Do you call her Blessed? Catholics do, just like the Bible says people would.
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  #12  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:41 pm
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SteveVH SteveVH is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
You are correct in saying I am ignorant of the catholic faith. That is why I am here to understand. It says in the bible Mary was blessed but so are other women in the bible.
Ask yourself this question. Of all women, or men, for that matter, who have ever lived on the face of the earth, who else can claim to be the daughter of the Father, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the mother of the Son of God? No one. She is not just another blessed woman. She was chosen by the Father and asked to be the mother of God. Her response is an example to us all: "Be it done unto me according to thy word." She cooperated with God in bringing to us the Savior of the world. She was not forced.

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I feel in my heart that Mary holds a high place in Gods heart but I am unsure about praying to her.
Understandable, considering what you believe about her and the meaning you associate with praying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
Even if the saints are praying for Human kind in Heaven does this mean they hear our prayers? From what I have been taught is Jesus is the only way to God. My other thought is If I was Jesus and could hear every prayer and take it to my father, would I burden my mother in heaven who is in paradise with something I can do my self?
Will you pray for me if I ask you? Why would you do that if all I need to do is just go directly to God? Mary and the saints in heaven do nothing but point us to Christ. And they do nothing more than what we do right here on earth. We ask them to pray for us and they do. If I believe that your prayers will have an effect, why not the prayers of Jesus' own mother?
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  #13  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:41 pm
Travis8257 Travis8257 is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

of course I consider her blessed, any one chosen by God for such a task would be considered blessed by default
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Old Aug 25, '13, 12:44 pm
Jozefo Jozefo is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
and i meant the son of God* I have a lot of questions and type to quickly. I understand that all nations will call her blessed. She truly had to be blessed to bear the son of God. What I am looking for is where it says to ask her to pray for us.
There are numerous examples of intercessory prayer in the Bible. I showed you where in Revelation the saints in heaven offer up prayers for us. Are they not interceding?

But I do understand the difficulty in accepting this. I had the same problems at one time, but the Scriptures are clear: the saints in heaven are alive in Christ, and they can intercede for us just like believers in the temporal world can.
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  #15  
Old Aug 25, '13, 12:50 pm
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SteveVH SteveVH is offline
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Default Re: What does it mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis8257 View Post
In Luke written in red it was made clear not to put to much emphasis on the Mother.
Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou has sucked. But he said, Yea rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.
Jesus was not saying "do not honor my mother or pay too much attention to her". What has been given to Jesus' mother is offered to us as well. Jesus was saying that no one has a special status because of some earthly relation. They are blessed who hear the word of god and keep it and no one did this more perfectly than did Mary. And you cannot pick verses in isolation to the rest of Scripture. We are told that all nations will call her blessed. So far, it seems that the Catholic Church, and only few others, are actually fulfilling this prophecy.
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