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  #1  
Old Aug 29, '13, 5:59 pm
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

This was on exmormon.org. What is the truth about this? Steve Benson also goes after Karl Keating. See bolded text.


Whether Mormon or Catholic, the institutional control of info is the same-- new

"It is alleged that the [Catholic] Church forbade Catholics from reading the Holy Bible by placing it on the index of Forbidden Books. The Bibles placed on the Index of Forbidden Books were Protestant Bibles that lacked 7 books and/or badly translated versions of the Bible.

"Exception

"The Diocese of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, is the only place in the world that I know of where in the days before Vatican II, Catholics were forbidden from reading the Holy Bible. Even local priests will admit to this practice. The explanation given for this non-Catholic practice is that the local priests feared if Catholics were to read the Bible, they would give it their own personal interpretation. Not being qualified to interpret the Holy Bible, they were forbidden to read it."

("Catholic Doors Ministry," at: http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/ap...iddenbible.htm)
_____


"It is true that earlier in this century, in some Catholic circles, people were not encouraged to read their Bibles. This discouragement was a mistake. The Church does not claim that these types of mistakes have not been made. Catholics believe that although the teaching of the Church is "infallible" on matters of doctrine, the Church is not "indefectible." Sometimes God chooses people who fall. He has done that since the beginning of the Church. (i.e., Judas).

"It was never forbidden to read the Bible. But some priests were worried that congregations would come up with dozens of conflicting interpretations of Scripture. These priests knew of over 300 Protestant denominations who had distinct beliefs about the interpretation of Scripture. Many of these interpretations conflicted with each other yet every one of them claimed divine inspiration. As a whole, neither Catholics or Evangelicals are into relativism (which says there are many truths). So we have to conclude that the vast majority of conflicting Evangelical biblical interpretations are incorrect since only one can be true. (Perhaps this is a powerful argument against Sola Scriptura - Bible alone.) Some priests saw this divisional process in Protestant circles and felt it was a danger."

("Catholic Bridge.com," at:http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/d...le_reading.php)
_____


"* FACT 1: Until the present generation, the Roman Catholic Church forbade her people to read the Bible for themselves under pain of 'mortal sin.' That is, the Catholic who owned or read the Bible was de facto condemned to Hell.

"Evidence:

"The Bible was placed on Rome's 'Index of Forbidden Books' list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in the year 1229. It remained there until the index was discontinued at Vatican Council II. Anyone reading or owning a 'forbidden' book was anathematized, or cursed and remanded to hell for doing so.

"Cannon 14 from the Council of Toulouse says that the Roman Catholic Church:

"'Forbids the laity to have in their possession any copy of the books of the Old and New Testament . . . and most strictly forbids these works in the vulgar tongue.'

"Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms this fact when he writes that 'the bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the [Albigensian] heresy was ended.' (Page 45, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating). The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the 'Index of Forbidden Books' for another 730 years! In his dance with truth, Mr. Keating takes care to omit this little fact.

"Still More Evidence. This teaching was confirmed at the Council of Trent (Session IV, April 8, 1546, 'Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures'). The Council of Trent went further, stating that anyone who dared study Scriptures on their own must 'be punished with the penalties by law established." With incredible audacity, the Council of Trent went so far as to forbid even the printing of and sale of the Bible! Anyone daring to violate this decree was anathematized, or cursed and damned to Hell for it. ('Dogmatic Cannons and Decrees of the Council of Trent,' . . . pp. 11-13; copyright 1977, 1912, with Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat, Tan Books and Publishers, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105)

"Still More Evidence Liguori, the most respected of Cannon Lawyers in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote that '[t]he Scriptures and books of Controversy may not be permitted in the vulgar tongue, as also they cannot be read without permission.'

"And Yet Even More Evidence Pope Clement XI (1713), in his bull Unigenitus, wrote that '[ww}e strictly forbid them [the laity] to have the books of the Old and New Testament in the vulgar tongue.'

"* FACT 2: Since Vatican Council II (1965) The Roman Catholic Church now permits her people to read the Bible, and even offers an 'indulgence' of three hundred days off of Purgatory time for doing, if they read in for at least fifteen minutes at one sitting. ('The Holy Bible, Douay-Confraternity' version, Title Page overleaf.)

"* FACT 3: Vatican Council II confirmed all pronouncements of the Council of Trent, which, as we see above, forbade the Bible to the people."

(Catholic Dilemma: Reading the Bible)
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Last edited by Michael Francis; Aug 29, '13 at 6:22 pm.
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  #2  
Old Aug 29, '13, 7:09 pm
getysbg getysbg is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

I went to the site Catholic Dilemma: Reading the Bible. I must say - some serious whacka-doodles are at work. If they took a logic course in school they should file for a refund.
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Old Aug 29, '13, 7:46 pm
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Steveabrous Steveabrous is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

The reality is the Catholic church has never banned the bible. Unauthorized printings, like the Protestant bible, have been banned because they are full of errors. There have been temporary regional bans to warred off heresy ( of which I'm only aware of in southern France in the 13th century). But once the heresy was gone so was the ban
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Old Aug 29, '13, 8:29 pm
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bzkoss236 bzkoss236 is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveabrous View Post
The reality is the Catholic church has never banned the bible. Unauthorized printings, like the Protestant bible, have been banned because they are full of errors. There have been temporary regional bans to warred off heresy ( of which I'm only aware of in southern France in the 13th century). But once the heresy was gone so was the ban
And many of the documents that I've read that supposedly ban reading the Bible don't use the word "banned", but rather use the word "discouraged", which is understandable to protect people from heresy.
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Old Aug 29, '13, 8:44 pm
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

In cases where someone critical of a religion cites some source of that religion in support of their view, it is always best to go back to that source and read it for yourself, in context (I assume that when I do the same, members of that religion would also do that).

If you read the Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures from the Council of Trent, you'll see that it most definitely does not state what the critic says it does. It does not forbid the Bible to the people.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/trent4.htm
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  #6  
Old Aug 30, '13, 7:04 am
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

Thanks for the link, LW.
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Old Aug 30, '13, 7:30 am
neophyte neophyte is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

The claims about Toulouse are also wrong. The local Ordinary, in response to heretical texts created by the Albigensians, imposed a temporary restriction on private bible studies, requiring that those who wished to have them obtain permission from the Ordinary and use only approved texts. That was neither a ban on reading the bible, nor an act of the Church as a whole.
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Old Aug 30, '13, 8:49 am
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AmbroseSJ AmbroseSJ is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

Quote:
"* FACT 2: Since Vatican Council II (1965) The Roman Catholic Church now permits her people to read the Bible, and even offers an 'indulgence' of three hundred days off of Purgatory time for doing, if they read in for at least fifteen minutes at one sitting. ('The Holy Bible, Douay-Confraternity' version, Title Page overleaf.)

"* FACT 3: Vatican Council II confirmed all pronouncements of the Council of Trent, which, as we see above, forbade the Bible to the people."
Here are some FACTS:

The Bible was published IN ENGLISH in 1582, again in 1600, 1609,1610,1621,1633,1635,1718,1730,1750, 1752,1768,and more and more frequently after that. By the 1800's there are TOO MANY CATHOLIC BIBLES IN ENGLISH to enumerate. The 20th Century saw still more Catholic Bibles in English published in England, Ireland and America. (Probably Australia too.)

All of the above Bibles were available to the faithful for reading. Before 1582, there were no Catholic Bibles in English available to the public, only Protestant ones, which were poorly translated either willfully or not.
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Old Aug 30, '13, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriam1947 View Post


"* FACT 2: Since Vatican Council II (1965) The Roman Catholic Church now permits her people to read the Bible, and even offers an 'indulgence' of three hundred days off of Purgatory time for doing, if they read in for at least fifteen minutes at one sitting. ('The Holy Bible, Douay-Confraternity' version, Title Page overleaf.)

"* FACT 3: Vatican Council II confirmed all pronouncements of the Council of Trent, which, as we see above, forbade the Bible to the people."
[/b])
Funny this is not a quote from the VII documents. Anyone can claim this council said this, but I don't by it unless they give me a quote that I can reference.
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Old Aug 30, '13, 9:37 am
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriam1947 View Post
"* FACT 2: Since Vatican Council II (1965) The Roman Catholic Church now permits her people to read the Bible, and even offers an 'indulgence' of three hundred days off of Purgatory time for doing, if they read in for at least fifteen minutes at one sitting. ('The Holy Bible, Douay-Confraternity' version, Title Page overleaf.)
Also, this is a misunderstanding of "days" in regard to indulgences. The Church doesn't teach that we get "time off" in purgatory, since purgatory taking an amount of time is only conjecture and not a defined doctrine of purgatory.

The "days" is a reference to the amount of penance. Indulgences were created as a way to reduce the amount of penance one would need to do by a major act in conjunction with a few other requirements. Back before indulgences, people could accumulate many days, weeks, even years worth of penance. So, when the Church talks about "days" in reference to indulgences, it is talking about the equivalent number of days of penance, not "days off of purgatory".
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  #11  
Old Aug 30, '13, 2:51 pm
mikekle mikekle is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

I remember when I went all thru Catholic school, from 1st grade up until about 7th grade, afterwards I went to public school but I cannot remember a time during my time at St Henry, where we read directly from the bible, or were even encouraged to do so, it seems they had their own religion textbooks printed and we worked from those. I even remember thinking it was odd the church did not have bibles in the pews, only church songbooks.

Even during masses, I have never seen anyone bringing a bible in or have one with them during the mass, this is strange too.

I wonder if they do things differently nowadays at Catholic schools?
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Old Aug 30, '13, 4:10 pm
Farsight001 Farsight001 is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

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Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
I remember when I went all thru Catholic school, from 1st grade up until about 7th grade, afterwards I went to public school but I cannot remember a time during my time at St Henry, where we read directly from the bible, or were even encouraged to do so, it seems they had their own religion textbooks printed and we worked from those. I even remember thinking it was odd the church did not have bibles in the pews, only church songbooks.

Even during masses, I have never seen anyone bringing a bible in or have one with them during the mass, this is strange too.

I wonder if they do things differently nowadays at Catholic schools?
In my Catholic school, a bible was a required textbook from the grade I learned to read well enough (5th or so), till I finished college.

Furthermore, there is no point to someone bringing a bible to mass. There are missals in the pews that contain all the day's scripture readings for mass with which to follow along and no spare time during mass (so full of praying) to read scripture on your own.
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Old Aug 31, '13, 5:48 am
mikekle mikekle is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

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Originally Posted by Farsight001 View Post
In my Catholic school, a bible was a required textbook from the grade I learned to read well enough (5th or so), till I finished college.

Furthermore, there is no point to someone bringing a bible to mass. There are missals in the pews that contain all the day's scripture readings for mass with which to follow along and no spare time during mass (so full of praying) to read scripture on your own.
No missals have ever been in our church, only song books.
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Old Aug 31, '13, 6:35 am
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

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Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
Even during masses, I have never seen anyone bringing a bible in or have one with them during the mass, this is strange too.
There are three readings, a responsorial psalm and numerous prayers which are soaked in scripture, so what's "strange" about people not bringing a Bible? We're immersed in the Word as is.
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Old Aug 31, '13, 7:22 am
Usagi Usagi is offline
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Default Re: Catholics forbidden to read the Bible

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Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
No missals have ever been in our church, only song books.
Really? In my current parish, the missal for the Sundays of the year is incorporated into the song book, but it's still there.

Other parishes I've attended have "missalettes" that are replaced every few weeks as the year goes by.

It's true that if you want a full missal book for every mass of the year (including daily masses), you'd have to buy your own and bring it in (as many Catholics did in the days when the mass was universally in Latin, or so I understand).

But I've never seen a parish that didn't have some text that allowed for following along with the mass. Some print the full readings in the text, others only the book/chapter/verse references since we're supposed to be listening to the proclamation of the Word moreso than reading along.

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