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  #1  
Old Jul 18, '04, 12:07 pm
auhsoj88 auhsoj88 is offline
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Default Bilbe Punctuation?

Who punctuated the Bible? Was this done during the same time the bible was broken into chapters and verses? Or was it punctuated later? Were the people who punctuated the bible inspired? Did these people have authority to choose when to start and end a sentence, paragraph, and added commas, periods, and so forth to this book our faith is based on. I mean think about it. Anybody who has taken an english course knows that if a letter is punctuated incorrectly (or not punctuated at all) the meaning of the whole passage or verse can be altered.

For example if I say (w/o punctuation):
Bob the engineer and brother of Alex went to the park

I am talking about one person or three?

Think about it. If the whole bible was punctuated by people and not the original apostles then we must be getting an altered meaning of scripture.

As a catholic, thank God I have a Church as a defender and bulwark of the truth guiding me, and not just a book.
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  #2  
Old Jul 18, '04, 12:23 pm
squirt squirt is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Another question:

Has there ever been an unpunctuated English-language translation? If so, that would be cool to see.
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  #3  
Old Jul 18, '04, 12:30 pm
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pnewton pnewton is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

The individual translator(s) add the punctuation. Since Greek and Hebrew had no punctuation, the verb or noun form often helps tie this clause to that one. Obviously there is sometimes disagreement.
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  #4  
Old Jul 18, '04, 6:16 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Only the original authors were inspired. Translators are not inspired.

JimG
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  #5  
Old Jul 18, '04, 7:59 pm
copland copland is offline
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Talking Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

The early Greek manuscripts were done in continuous script. That means that there were no spaces between the words and no punctuation. This was done mainly because the resources to write on was exspensive, and it saved alot of room by doing it in continuous script.


But for your answer, scribes later added punctuation. But even today there are differences among Greek texts to what is correct punctuation. The Nestle Aland Greek text and the ABS Greek text are exactly the same as far as the Greek words but the only diffference is the punctuation.

Different translators use different punctuation in their works. As any language evolves it takes upon different punctuation in order to express it's meaning.

But to give you a little word of warning, don't get hung up on who has the "inspired" punctuation. The transmission of the Bible is so very complex that there are are so many things that come into play, such as what manuscript tradition is the most reliable, or is it better to go the eclectic route or is it better to use a single manuscript. There is no original punctuation.

It may be a shock to a Baptist, but the KJV was not found in a cave in Israel somewhere. And neither was the RSV-CE. All these translations are a product of centuries of textual criticism.
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  #6  
Old Jul 19, '04, 8:45 am
headman13 headman13 is offline
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Smile Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Heck yeah, the original Hebrew text did not even have vowels, for goodness sake. That's why all we know of the Name of God as revealed to Moses is JHWH. The reader basically had to know how to pronounce ALL the words in the text. The vowel "points" were added much much later by scholars in Palestine called Masoretes, and instead of pointing God's unutterable Name, they pointed it with the vowels for "Adonai," i.e. "My Lord," which is why in traditional English translations fo the Hebrew Bible, when the Name of God appears, the text says "the LORD" in small caps. This mixture of God's Name with "my Lord" is where the name "Jehovah" comes from.
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  #7  
Old Jul 19, '04, 11:17 am
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by copland
But to give you a little word of warning, don't get hung up on who has the "inspired" punctuation. ... There is no original punctuation.
And since only the original authors were inspired, and we have no original manuscripts, it follows that none of the bible translations we have today are "inspired!"

JimG
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  #8  
Old Jul 19, '04, 11:21 am
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

What I find most troubling is quotation marks. In Revelation, for instance, translations differ in places about if a verse is an individual in the vision is the speaker or whether St. John himself is speaking to the reader.
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  #9  
Old Jul 19, '04, 12:52 pm
Socrates Socrates is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X
What I find most troubling is quotation marks. In Revelation, for instance, translations differ in places about if a verse is an individual in the vision is the speaker or whether St. John himself is speaking to the reader.
Not only that, but the chapter divisions can cause confusion too. The modern reader usually associates the beginning of a new chapter with the beginning of a new thought or idea.

This might cause some to not see the otherwise clear association between the Ark of the Covenant (end of Rev 11) and the woman clothed with the sun [Mary] (beginning of Rev 12). The inspired author did not divide those passages from one another.
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  #10  
Old Jul 19, '04, 2:28 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by copland
It may be a shock to a Baptist, but the KJV was not found in a cave in Israel somewhere.
It wasn't? Oh, nooooooooooooo!!!!



Now wattam I gonna do??????



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  #11  
Old Jul 19, '04, 3:07 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Wasn't the King James Version delivered by God directly to King James? After all, it's also known as the Authorized Version.

JimG
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  #12  
Old Jul 19, '04, 7:31 pm
copland copland is offline
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Talking Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Jim,
Quote:
Wasn't the King James Version delivered by God directly to King James? After all, it's also known as the Authorized Version.
Actually the KJV was done when Jesus wrote it in the sand. And Thomas wrote the NIV because he doubted that the KJV was accurate enough.
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  #13  
Old Jul 21, '04, 8:47 am
Paul W Paul W is offline
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Default Re: Bilbe Punctuation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X
What I find most troubling is quotation marks. In Revelation, for instance, translations differ in places about if a verse is an individual in the vision is the speaker or whether St. John himself is speaking to the reader.
Although Hebrew does not have punctuation, some of the Dead Sea scrolls were marked with "inflection points" so they could be read aloud to the community at Qumran. The reader would know the appropriate places to pause, the words to emphasize, etc.

As a result, a well-known verse in Isiah has "recently" been changed from:

a voice crying out in the wilderness: " prepare the way of the Lord."

to:

a voice crying out: "in the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord."

It's hard to be a literalist, who believes that every word of the Bible is infallible, when simple punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence.
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