To Non-Catholics: Why Peter IS the Rock

Andrew Larkoski · #1 Jul 18, '04, 12:51 pm

Why is Peter the Head Apostle, and thus the first Pope?

Matt. 16:18: "You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my church . . ." Peter is the only apostle to be called "Rock" by Jesus. ("Rock" translated into Aramaic, Jesus' native tongue, is Kepha. "Peter" in Aramaic is Kepha.)

Simon's name was changed to Peter. This is a similar act as God changed Abram's name to Abraham, or Jacob's name to Israel. A change in name meant a change in vocation; Simon was no longer a fisher, Peter is the head disciple of Christ.

Peter's name appears first in every Scriptural listing of the names of the apostles (although he was not the first called).

Peter is mentioned by name more than any other apostle in the New Testament (182 times). Second is John (34 times).

Peter is the only apostle prayed for by Christ that his "own faith may not fail." (Luke 22:31-32) Christ then says "you must strengthen your brothers."

Luke 24:34 and 1 Cor 15:5 show that the first apostle Christ appeared to after His Resurrection was Peter.

These are just a few of many examples of the primacy of Peter.

SPOKENWORD · #2 Jul 18, '04, 3:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Larkoski

Why is Peter the Head Apostle, and thus the first Pope?

Matt. 16:18: "You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my church . . ." Peter is the only apostle to be called "Rock" by Jesus. ("Rock" translated into Aramaic, Jesus' native tongue, is Kepha. "Peter" in Aramaic is Kepha.)

Simon's name was changed to Peter. This is a similar act as God changed Abram's name to Abraham, or Jacob's name to Israel. A change in name meant a change in vocation; Simon was no longer a fisher, Peter is the head disciple of Christ.

Peter's name appears first in every Scriptural listing of the names of the apostles (although he was not the first called).

Peter is mentioned by name more than any other apostle in the New Testament (182 times). Second is John (34 times).

Peter is the only apostle prayed for by Christ that his "own faith may not fail." (Luke 22:31-32) Christ then says "you must strengthen your brothers."

Luke 24:34 and 1 Cor 15:5 show that the first apostle Christ appeared to after His Resurrection was Peter.

These are just a few of many examples of the primacy of Peter.

Jesus is still our firm foundation. Peter helps to build on that foundation.

jimmy · #3 Jul 19, '04, 6:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD

Jesus is still our firm foundation. Peter helps to build on that foundation.

You are correct, Jesus is the foundation. But Peter is still the leader.

space ghost · #4 Jul 19, '04, 6:52 am

I would offer to the non-catholic the very same thing that is offered to me..... it's in the bible...., and not only is it in the bible, it's traditional, and logical.... To the Bible christian, (and that's a healthly 95% of them)... the "it's in the Bible reference" is not only true but fair..

SPOKENWORD · #5 Jul 19, '04, 6:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by space ghost

I would offer to the non-catholic the very same thing that is offered to me..... it's in the bible...., and not only is it in the bible, it's traditional, and logical.... To the Bible christian, (and that's a healthly 95% of them)... the "it's in the Bible reference" is not only true but fair..

No question about being in the bible. The question is what did Jesus mean when He said it. Rock=firm ,hard, stone,ect?

The Barrister · #6 Jul 19, '04, 7:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD

No question about being in the bible. The question is what did Jesus mean when He said it. Rock=firm ,hard, stone,ect?

Why do non-Catholic "bible Christians" always insist on interpretations that make Jesus into nothing more than a clever riddler? When Jesus spoke in parables, it was a means of teaching. Otherwise, He spoke His mind, directly and unequivocally, particularly when giving instructions to the shepherds He was sending among His flock. Jesus could not risk being misunderstood.

Occam's Razor is the proper approach to Jesus' words - that is, do not make more assumptions that the minimum necessary to understand Him.

So the answer to your question is - He meant what He said. He built upon Peter a Church to stand the test of time, not a building or a loose collection of beliefs constructed on the shifting sands of personal revelation.

space ghost · #7 Jul 19, '04, 7:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD

No question about being in the bible. The question is what did Jesus mean when He said it. Rock=firm ,hard, stone,ect?

"I" believe he did... first, i don't think Jesus was given to idle pratter, i believe he meant what he said... after all, he let desicples walk away when he said his flesh was true food and his blood true drink... I would never subscribe to the tenet that he would unintentionally misguide anyone and we both know he wouldn't intentionally.. The apologist say Christ spoke Aramaic and that the correct interpretaion for Rock was Kepha (Rock)... i have never understood the defense that Christ meant something with the infeminine use of the greek intrepretation of Rock... Smoke and mirrors by those who have to support their case, because to believe otherwise, would put them right

back in Rome...

SPOKENWORD · #8 Jul 19, '04, 7:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by space ghost

"I" believe he did... first, i don't think Jesus was given to idle pratter, i believe he meant what he said... after all, he let desicples walk away when he said his flesh was true food and his blood true drink... I would never subscribe to the tenet that he would unintentionally misguide anyone and we both know he wouldn't intentionally.. The apologist say Christ spoke Aramaic and that the correct interpretaion for Rock was Kepha (Rock)... i have never understood the defense that Christ meant something with the infeminine use of the greek intrepretation of Rock... Smoke and mirrors by those who have to support their case, because to believe otherwise, would put them right

back in Rome...

I have no problem with peter being a rock,the fact is that Jesus is the firm foundation. Peter builds on the Lords foundation.Enough said.

Shibboleth · #9 Jul 19, '04, 7:37 am

I always find this conversation interesting. I think that stones are mentioned in the Bible somewhere around 175 times. One of my favorites is Genesis 28.

18: So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top.

22: "This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God's house."

jimmy · #10 Jul 19, '04, 11:28 pm

If you look through Acts, you can see that Peter is the leader of the apostles.

These are the other important apostles.

John the apostle is only mentioned about 5 or 6 times in all of acts. These are as part of a list or as being with Peter or being the brother of James.
James is only mentioned 3 times in all of Acts. One is his martyrdom, one is in the list in chapter 1 and 1 is at the council of Jerusalem.
Andrew the brother of Peter is only mentioned in the list in chapter 1.

Peter is listed first in the list of the apostles in chapter 1.
It is Peter who leads the choosing of a successor to Judas in chap.1.
It is Peter who speaks on Pentacost
it is Peter who speaks when they are arrested and taken before the sanhedrin.
It is Peter who is released twice by the angel of the lord from prison. James is not released, neither is Stephan. Who are both martyred. It is clear that Peter is looked upon here as an important figure by God in the transmission of his word.
The towns people wish to have Peters shadow cross over the sick for healing.
It is Peter who makes the decision that circumcision is not necisary.
It is Peter who Cornelius is sent to.
Peter raises Tabitha from the dead.
He healed Aeneas.
It is Peter who questions Ananias and Saphira about the property they sold.
There are many more but you probably get my point.

nordskoven · #11 Jul 19, '04, 11:46 pm

God was called "rock." Abram was renamed "Abraham," father of a multitude, and was called "rock." Peter was named Rock by Jesus Christ the first time He laid eyes on him. ROCK ON!

Peg · #12 Jul 20, '04, 8:49 pm

The claim that it is Jesus who is the foundation and not Peter is like so many Catholic/Protestant debates. It is Jesus primarily and Peter and all the apostles, the bishops, the priests and all the faithful. Each to different degrees.
Eph. 2:19-20 "...household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets...."

Fr Ambrose · #13 Jul 20, '04, 9:31 pm

I posted this today in another dfiscussion but it is appropriate here too.

http://www.missionstclare.com/english/people/jun29o.html

Take a quick read of this sermon by Saint Augustine. He is quite a way from the modern Roman Catholic teaching re: Peter and the Rock, Peter and the Keys, Peter and the "Feed my sheep" -- all used now to bolster claims of papal authority. When dealing with these "petrine passages" Augustine holds to the interpretation of the early Church, pretty much the same as the Orthodox interpretation of today.

SPOKENWORD · #14 Jul 21, '04, 7:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peg

The claim that it is Jesus who is the foundation and not Peter is like so many Catholic/Protestant debates. It is Jesus primarily and Peter and all the apostles, the bishops, the priests and all the faithful. Each to different degrees.
Eph. 2:19-20 "...household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets...."

In reading it in its entire context we see that Jesus is the capstone. We as christians form that building. We are the temple of the living God.Christ lives and dwells in us.

jimmy · #15 Jul 21, '04, 7:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD

In reading it in its entire context we see that Jesus is the capstone. We as christians form that building. We are the temple of the living God.Christ lives and dwells in us.

True, that is one reason why you have to live your life like you are a Christian and why works are prosperous. But you also must regard what Peter says because it is the word of God.