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  #1  
Old Sep 9, '13, 5:43 pm
HabemusFrancis HabemusFrancis is offline
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Default Why did English hate the Irish?

Can anyone answer this quesiton?

I have lately been reading of the English Cromwellian conquest of Ireland in the 1600s. Even by the standards of the time it seems unbelievably brutal!

For the next three hundred years, the English would do everything possible to make Ireland poor and wipe out its culture...

Did the English hate them so much because they were Catholic? Or because their culture was so different from the rest of Europe i.e warlike and clannish, filled with tattooed long haired people speaking a strange ancient language?

Was it a combination of the two?

I notice that even Scotland didnt get quite as poor of a deal as Ireland did ( Having a presbyterian population may have helped it.)

Funny enough, England has had a presence in Ireland since the 1100s, but it wasn't until the protestant reformation that they really began to treat it badly. Even Henry VIII by and large left it alone...
  #2  
Old Sep 9, '13, 5:46 pm
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

I'm English.

I never hated the Irish.

I think the question should be: why did the rich and powerful landlords seek to exploit the poor wherever they could?
  #3  
Old Sep 9, '13, 6:16 pm
HabemusFrancis HabemusFrancis is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

I never said the English "do" more like the english landlords/ aristocrats of not so long ago did.

And Im not talking about 18-1900s but 15-1600s, when there still were independent gaelic kingdoms.


And I think nationality has something to do with it too.

For example there never was a "Welsh potato famine!"
  #4  
Old Sep 9, '13, 7:34 pm
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JillianRose JillianRose is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Because their jealous of all the awesome potato recipes we have. We would not hand them over, so they made our life miserable.
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  #5  
Old Sep 9, '13, 7:34 pm
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LongingSoul LongingSoul is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

My grandad was Irish and my grandma was English. They actually married here in Australia though (1931) so the sharp edges were taken off the union for their families.

Back then, the English regarded the Irish a bit like 'savages' in the way they regarded aboriginal people. But they also had a thing about the Jews as well so I think it was more the 'tribal' element that offended and perhaps threatened the English class system which promoted fundamental inequality in ordering society.

Tribal systems generally value charisms in ordering their society ie. the Shaman, the matchmaker, the medicine man are all recognised as charisms. The class system valued status and wealth rather than charisms in ordering society. I'm speculating, but perhaps the masons originated as the English antidote to this godly notion of charisms, with an occult manufactured seemingly 'tribal' system to overpower it?

Of course, it is all quite different today between the English and Irish.
  #6  
Old Sep 9, '13, 8:07 pm
KP3243 KP3243 is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Didn't Queen Elizabeth I order the burning the Irish crop fields which led to massive starvation that wouldn't be seen again until Stalin in the 1920s?
  #7  
Old Sep 10, '13, 1:59 am
Ecclesiaticus S Ecclesiaticus S is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

haha the funny thing is @OP that you are not getting the answers from actual Irish or English people, but Americans, who still believe that because their ancestors of 300+ years ago make them Irish or English today.



Anyway from a REAL resident of the British Isles you shall have the answer.
Mainly because Ireland was Catholic and England at the time of the reformation and all that was, Protestant, everyone from Wales to Scotland, and England as well as Ireland that was Catholic was no longer allowed by the law to be so.

600,000 Irish were murdered so you can see why they don't get on too well.
  #8  
Old Sep 10, '13, 6:53 am
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclesiaticus S View Post
haha the funny thing is @OP that you are not getting the answers from actual Irish or English people, but Americans, who still believe that because their ancestors of 300+ years ago make them Irish or English today.



Anyway from a REAL resident of the British Isles you shall have the answer.
Mainly because Ireland was Catholic and England at the time of the reformation and all that was, Protestant, everyone from Wales to Scotland, and England as well as Ireland that was Catholic was no longer allowed by the law to be so.

600,000 Irish were murdered so you can see why they don't get on too well.
Wrong.

I am English (with Irish ancestry). Born in Manchester, lived in Manchester and then London 'til the age of 21.

And now I live in Alberta, which .... is not in America. .
  #9  
Old Sep 10, '13, 7:00 am
Ecclesiaticus S Ecclesiaticus S is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

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Originally Posted by triumphguy View Post
Wrong.

I am English (with Irish ancestry). Born in Manchester, lived in Manchester and then London 'til the age of 21.

And now I live in Alberta, which .... is not in America. .
  #10  
Old Sep 10, '13, 7:15 am
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

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Why the sarcastic eye roll?
  #11  
Old Sep 10, '13, 8:19 am
Ecclesiaticus S Ecclesiaticus S is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

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Why the sarcastic eye roll?
Indeed why.

Alberta is a province of Canada, Canada is a country within the American continent which does make it America I am afraid.
  #12  
Old Sep 10, '13, 8:45 am
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

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Originally Posted by Ecclesiaticus S View Post
Indeed why.

Alberta is a province of Canada, Canada is a country within the American continent which does make it America I am afraid.
Hmm - well as you know you are using rather arcane (if precise) language there.. But it doesn't make me less English. My UK passport is as good as yours.


Back to the point - the "English" haven't hated and don't hate the Irish (The Daily Mail isn't indicative of most English peoples' opinions thank God).

They hated ALL Catholics equally

I believe the same aristocracy that raped and pillage Ireland was the same that oppressed the peasantry in England and Scotland - whether Catholic or protestant.

But historically the aristocracy became such by being the biggest thugs around.
  #13  
Old Sep 10, '13, 9:02 am
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Country Gal Country Gal is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Why do the Poles and Germans dislike one another, or the Poles and Russians? Why do the Koreans dislike the Japanese? Close geographic neighbors often have age old animosities related to disputes over land and resources. Add in religious differences and you can blame it all on religion, but I think it's more tribalism than anything.

The Irish were never as politically savvy as the English. They allowed their own inter tribal disputes to undermine the defense of their Island from a stronger aggressor. England was expansionist because of the rule that only the eldest son inherited, therefore lessor sons of the aristocracy had to look elsewhere. Ireland and Scotland were the first obvious territories to conquer.
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  #14  
Old Sep 10, '13, 10:03 am
grotto grotto is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Murphy's Law: He who has the gold makes the rules. England was closer to mainland Europe, had more ships for trading, commerce, education and had contempt for the occupants of an Island who did not wish to take up English ways, (and pay them with whatever they had, or else). So the usual happens, the bully gets more and more mean and rotten. The Irish have resisted and fought the bully ever since, but England has given up on many bad character traits like raiding the land of anything edible. Scotland was similar in culture to Ireland but the land was connected and for some reason raging war with them was more difficult for England. A cold war continued to flare from time to time. England usually wound up with their foot on the neck of Ireland, Scotland and Wales. What lies in the hearts of people til this day wouldn't be described as "hatred" per se; more like dislike for some personalities and views mixed among friendships that have also been built.
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  #15  
Old Sep 10, '13, 10:15 am
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MSSheBear MSSheBear is offline
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Default Re: Why did English hate the Irish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclesiaticus S View Post
haha the funny thing is @OP that you are not getting the answers from actual Irish or English people, but Americans, who still believe that because their ancestors of 300+ years ago make them Irish or English today.



Anyway from a REAL resident of the British Isles you shall have the answer.
Mainly because Ireland was Catholic and England at the time of the reformation and all that was, Protestant, everyone from Wales to Scotland, and England as well as Ireland that was Catholic was no longer allowed by the law to be so.

600,000 Irish were murdered so you can see why they don't get on too well.
You mean our DNA doesn't make us an expert? Like we are removed from whole culture or something? Make it just 200 years please. You wouldn't want us to account for all of our ancestors, would you?
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