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  #1  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:16 am
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LibralAteoJesus LibralAteoJesus is offline
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Default Who created God, how did he come into existence?

From your Catholic beliefs; how did God get into existence from nothing?
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  #2  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:25 am
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

From my Catholic beliefs, God did not come into existence. God is eternal by definition.
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  #3  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:26 am
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LibralAteoJesus LibralAteoJesus is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
From my Catholic beliefs, God did not come into existence. God is eternal by definition.
How?
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  #4  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:37 am
petersomething petersomething is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

God was never created. He is meta-cosmic in the sense that He transcends the created order and so is termed uncreated. All things in creation, the archangels, the angels, the cosmos and humankind are created by God.

Meister Eckhart puts it this way: "God is a Word, an Unspoken Word. Where God is, He utters His Word. Where He is not, He does not speak. God is spoken and unspoken. The Father is a speaking work, and the Son is the speech at work."

God “unspoken” is actually the Godhead or Divine Essence where “He does not speak” and where “He is not.” (According to Eckhart, "If I also say, God is a Being, it is not true; He is transcendent Being and superessential Nothingness.") God “spoken” is where “God is” and refers to His Self-revelation in the Divine Persons, starting with the Father and then through the Son, Holy Spirit. The Father is Pure Being – the speaking work – and the Son is the Logos of Being – the speech at work.

So God, in His absolute essence, transcends even the polarities of being and non-being, of existence and non-existence. This would have to be so if God is truly above all opposition. Existence and non-existence are still human attributes which God is not subject to, hence He neither exists, nor does not-not exist. That is not to say those attributes are not real, they just do not apply to Him in His purest essence, but through Him they are manifest.

Again, according to Eckhart:

"The Godhead in itself is motionless unity and balanced stillness and is the source of all emanations. Hence I assume a passive welling-up. We call this first utterance Being, for the most intrinsic utterance, the first formal assumption in the Godhead is Being. Being as essential Word, God is being, but being is not God. Now the origin of the Father is necessarily involved in this assumption of a passive welling-up. In other words, the Deity being in Itself intelligence, therefore, the divine nature steps forth into relation of otherness: other, but not another, for this distinction is rational, not real. Thus, the first Person arises in the Godhead passively, not from any active beginning. Hence its beginning is without property. The question is, what is the Person of the Father. I answer that it is Being in the Godhead, not according to essence but according to paternity, which is the formal notion specifically determining the Father."
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  #5  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:42 am
smichhertz smichhertz is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by LibralAteoJesus View Post
From your Catholic beliefs; how did God get into existence from nothing?
God always was, and always will be. He was never created.

Our Catholic beliefs don't really get into the science of HOW this is possible. It's not like there was some experiment done or formula discovered to prove it.
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  #6  
Old Sep 12, '13, 7:48 am
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
From my Catholic beliefs, God did not come into existence. God is eternal by definition.
How?
This is a typical child's question.

The more fundamental question is: "How can anything exist?"

It's obvious that nothing can create itself. So how can anything exist?

The answer is that there is one thing that didn't come into existence, but always existed.
It is its own existence. This we call God.

He is the Necessary Being. He cannot not exist.
Why? We don't know. Only God can understand that. But if it weren't true we wouldn't be here to worry about it.
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  #7  
Old Sep 12, '13, 8:01 am
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DCNBILL DCNBILL is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by LibralAteoJesus View Post
How?
Since we are created beings this would be our only frame of reference, we only understand a way of being as that of being created. So of course we can not comprehend our Creator. All we can do is attempt to use our limited language to describe "how are Creator is." The Catholic view is that God is eternal, without beginning or end, He is being itself. All of creation comes from Him and nothing exists except that which He created and only is because it "participates in His being."
Hope this helps a bit.
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  #8  
Old Sep 12, '13, 8:23 am
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LibralAteoJesus LibralAteoJesus is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by empther View Post
This is a typical child's question.

The more fundamental question is: "How can anything exist?"

It's obvious that nothing can create itself. So how can anything exist?

The answer is that there is one thing that didn't come into existence, but always existed.
It is its own existence. This we call God.

He is the Necessary Being. He cannot not exist.
Why? We don't know. Only God can understand that. But if it weren't true we wouldn't be here to worry about it.
Perhaps there is a higher god who created the god who created us, since our existence is useless without bringing a God as an explanation, why God's existence isn't useless without a higher creator? Specially in the case where the materialist world is measured unlike the supernatural world.

So anyone can bring up a supernatural story and consider it as an origin even without evidences to support it and an explaination for the "How", just like Russell's teapot which cannot be disproved.

What makes the Catholic god as a supernatural story more valuable?
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  #9  
Old Sep 12, '13, 8:55 am
Linux Linux is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by LibralAteoJesus View Post
Perhaps there is a higher god who created the god who created us, since our existence is useless without bringing a God as an explanation, why God's existence isn't useless without a higher creator? Specially in the case where the materialist world is measured unlike the supernatural world.

So anyone can bring up a supernatural story and consider it as an origin even without evidences to support it and an explaination for the "How", just like Russell's teapot which cannot be disproved.

What makes the Catholic god as a supernatural story more valuable?
I don't agree with empthers arrogance and disrespect; but like he said it is not a matter of who created God, because if God was created he is not God to begin with. When one speaks of God in an ontological sense one is speaking of that being upon which everything else is dependent on for its existence. Now if you want to dispute that some ultimate reality exists or dispute whether that being is or is not the universe, thats fine. But the fact remains that there has to be a being from which all contingent things ultimately originate; unless of course you are of the opinion that things just pop of nothing for no reason at all. We can discuss that too.
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  #10  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:10 am
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

linux

I don't agree with empthers arrogance and disrespect;

I don't agree. There is nothing wrong with asking a childish question if you happen to be a child.

Nor is there anything wrong with asking a childish question if you happen to be an adult.

We are all children of God, and so we all ask childish questions.
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  #11  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:43 am
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LibralAteoJesus LibralAteoJesus is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by Linux View Post
I don't agree with empthers arrogance and disrespect; but like he said it is not a matter of who created God, because if God was created he is not God to begin with. When one speaks of God in an ontological sense one is speaking of that being upon which everything else is dependent on for its existence. Now if you want to dispute that some ultimate reality exists or dispute whether that being is or is not the universe, thats fine. But the fact remains that there has to be a being from which all contingent things ultimately originate; unless of course you are of the opinion that things just pop of nothing for no reason at all. We can discuss that too.
How can God exist without a creator? A simple question that I need a Catholic "scientific" answer for, not looking for atheism vs theism debate, saying a creator cannot be created because he wouldn't be a god to begin with isn't explaning a lot.

I didn't claim I know what existed before the Big bang.
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  #12  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:44 am
cjkaupke cjkaupke is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

St Thomas Aquinas proved, very convincingly, that there must necessarily be a being that is uncaused, uncreated, perfect, necessary, and the governor of the universe. It is logically impossible for there not to be.
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  #13  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:46 am
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R_C R_C is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by LibralAteoJesus View Post
From your Catholic beliefs; how did God get into existence from nothing?
I hope I don't get in trouble for throwing in some humor from Catholic Memes...

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  #14  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:47 am
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dshix dshix is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by LibralAteoJesus View Post
How can God exist without a creator? A simple question that I need a Catholic "scientific" answer for, not looking for atheism vs theism debate, saying a creator cannot be created because he wouldn't be a god to begin with isn't explaning a lot.

I didn't claim I know what existed before the Big bang.
empether already answered your question. God CANNOT not exist. It is in the nature of God to be THE necessary being.


If you suggest that there was an even higher being which created God, then we would be forced to ask what created THAT higher being. Your question is circular.


The very nature of the concept of God is a first mover; a being which is not caused and does not need to be caused, because that being, by its nature, IS. God has no beginning and no end; He has always and always will exist.
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  #15  
Old Sep 12, '13, 9:47 am
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LibralAteoJesus LibralAteoJesus is offline
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Default Re: Who created God, how did he come into existence?

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Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
linux

I don't agree with empthers arrogance and disrespect;

I don't agree. There is nothing wrong with asking a childish question if you happen to be a child.

Nor is there anything wrong with asking a childish question if you happen to be an adult.

We are all children of God, and so we all ask childish questions.
I first remember asking this question when I was a child to a priest, his answer was : " you'll know when you get to Hell".

It's good to remember that there is no problem in asking a question no matter how it may appear "heretic" or "childish".
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