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  #106  
Old Nov 5, '13, 6:44 pm
Evania's Avatar
Evania Evania is offline
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Default Re: My sister is having an abortion...

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Originally Posted by CaliLobo View Post
Exactly! My point is proven. God might be our God from the time we were in the womb. He may know us from the time we were in the womb. But these verses do not forbid abortion per se.

Furthermore, the Bible says that you shall not "murder", not "kill"....



No the grotesque pictures distract from the main issue, which is, "What is best for women?"

Many surgeries are grotesque. Many people refuse to be medical doctors because of the blood and the gore. It doesn't take away the necessity of the medical procedure, however.

Can you concede that there are times when women honestly feel that an abortion is a regrettable, but best choice?

I will concede nothing.

God said Thou Shalt not Kill. He didn't say, "Except in the case of pregnancy." Your argument of comparison isn't applicable to this discussion because the abortion pics show the actual photographic evidence of murder, not of a gruesome surgery . I think women deserve the TRUTH, not a lie, a cover up or a half truth. Letting a person kill your child is not what's "best" for women. I think it's sad that you think so little of women that you think they should have the right to kill their own offspring. I think women have a higher calling.
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  #107  
Old Nov 5, '13, 9:58 pm
CaliLobo CaliLobo is offline
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Default Re: My sister is having an abortion...

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Originally Posted by Evania View Post
I will concede nothing.

God said Thou Shalt not Kill. He didn't say, "Except in the case of pregnancy." Your argument of comparison isn't applicable to this discussion because the abortion pics show the actual photographic evidence of murder, not of a gruesome surgery . I think women deserve the TRUTH, not a lie, a cover up or a half truth. Letting a person kill your child is not what's "best" for women. I think it's sad that you think so little of women that you think they should have the right to kill their own offspring. I think women have a higher calling.
Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says "You shall not kill," then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: http://carm.org/questions/you-shall-...-yet-god-kills

First of all, there is no contradiction. "Thou shalt not kill" is from the old King James Bible. Modern translations (ESV, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV) have it as "You shall not murder." The word in the Hebrew for "kill" here in Exodus 20:13 is תִּרְצָח (ratsach). It is translated into the English many different ways, depending on the context: "slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + 310 1, slayeth 1, death 1." 1

Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. God has said, "You shall not murder," not "You shall not kill." After all, God says killing in self defense is justifiable. Exodus 22:2, "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account." If mere killing of any kind was the issue, then why would God saying killing in self defense is permissible? He wouldn't. This is another reason that modern translations say, "You shall not murder."


Second of all, abortion is a surgical medical procedure that is done to benefit the woman's health. Please concede that pregnancy is very burdensome to a woman's physical and emotional health, and that therefore abortion must remain an option albeit a tragic one.

Please also concede that abortion, if done for the health of the mother, is an act of self-defense, a justified killing.

Pro-choicers are not hiding the truth. It is the Catholic Church that is shaming people into thinking that such necessary options are sins, when there is no Biblical basis for believing so.

I think it's sad that you think so little of women that they must suffer the physical, emotional, and financial consequences of unwanted pregnancy and child-rearing, and that you even support legislative bans that force women into such a fate. I think women have higher callings (how about careers?) than to be saddled with unwanted babies.
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  #108  
Old Nov 6, '13, 1:00 am
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SpidersfromMars SpidersfromMars is offline
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Default Re: My sister is having an abortion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliLobo View Post
Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says "You shall not kill," then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: http://carm.org/questions/you-shall-...-yet-god-kills
God's allowed to take back the lives He created as He sees fit. We are not, which is why killing is a grave sin in our case. After all, you can assume that God has some sort of reasoning behind when He ends a life; man, on the other hand, just murders blindly.
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  #109  
Old Nov 6, '13, 9:29 am
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Evania Evania is offline
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Default Re: My sister is having an abortion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliLobo View Post
Your interpretation of the Bible is much too mechanical, and it is from the old King James version. If it were true that the Bible says "You shall not kill," then the Bible contradicts itself because God has killed people throughout history. See this link: http://carm.org/questions/you-shall-...-yet-god-kills

First of all, there is no contradiction. "Thou shalt not kill" is from the old King James Bible. Modern translations (ESV, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV) have it as "You shall not murder." The word in the Hebrew for "kill" here in Exodus 20:13 is תִּרְצָח (ratsach). It is translated into the English many different ways, depending on the context: "slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + 310 1, slayeth 1, death 1." 1

Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. God has said, "You shall not murder," not "You shall not kill." After all, God says killing in self defense is justifiable. Exodus 22:2, "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account." If mere killing of any kind was the issue, then why would God saying killing in self defense is permissible? He wouldn't. This is another reason that modern translations say, "You shall not murder."


Second of all, abortion is a surgical medical procedure that is done to benefit the woman's health. Please concede that pregnancy is very burdensome to a woman's physical and emotional health, and that therefore abortion must remain an option albeit a tragic one.

Please also concede that abortion, if done for the health of the mother, is an act of self-defense, a justified killing.

Pro-choicers are not hiding the truth. It is the Catholic Church that is shaming people into thinking that such necessary options are sins, when there is no Biblical basis for believing so.

I think it's sad that you think so little of women that they must suffer the physical, emotional, and financial consequences of unwanted pregnancy and child-rearing, and that you even support legislative bans that force women into such a fate. I think women have higher callings (how about careers?) than to be saddled with unwanted babies.

God is the Giver of life. Only He has the right to take a life. Only a person who feels that they should be on par with God would cite Scripture verses of God taking life as justification to their right to murder. What other powers of God do you think we should have?
It is NEVER just or moral to take the life of another human being. Period. It isn't that hard to understand. You STILL have not shown me the Bible verse(s) to counteract the numerous Bible verses that I provided where Scripture clearly states the sacredness of life within the womb. Could it be that you couldn't find any? If that's the case, than you have failed to defend your position on a Biblical basis.

Abortion is not a "surgical medical procedure" done to help women. A surgical medical procedure is done to correct an internal issue in which an organ or body part is not working in the way it was designed to. Therefore, a doctor is in place to promote healing. In addition a doctor takes an oath to not purposefully cause harm or death. An abortion practitioner's aim is not to promote healing. His aim is to kill. His aim is not to fix something that is not working correctly. Him aim is to thwart the way in which it is designed.

I have provided you with the Biblical basis as to why abortion is a sin. You are blind, so therefore you can't see. Your heart is hardened against the smallest of your fellow man, so therefore no evidence, including the extreme pain these little one's suffer, nor the grotesque pictures of their murder will suffice. You want what you want, despite the pain of others. The golden calf you worship is abortion not God.

There are some women who justify abortion by proclaiming, "This is my body.", and before Jesus died, He instituted the Eucharist and said, "This is my Body...Given up for You."

He also stated: "Whatever you do to one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you do unto Me."
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