Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 20, 2004

**Forum Admin** · #1 Jul 20, '04, 12:48 pm

Karl's E-Letter of July 20, 2004

TOPICS:

A Tale of Two Dioceses

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http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_040720.asp

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To subscribe to the free weekly E-Letter, go to:
www.catholic.com/newsletters.asp

bernied · #2 Jul 20, '04, 12:58 pm

Karl writes:

"The pastor of St. Patrick's parish in Madras also is unhappy with the "Affirmation." "It breaks my heart," said Fr. Jim Stephens, "that a number of good people ... have told me they cannot continue in parish ministry, that they cannot make the 'Affirmation of Personal Faith' because they have some reservation about some of the teachings."

Stephens says his heart is broken because these people now feel excluded. Why didn't his heart break when he discovered that they didn't accept the entirety of the Catholic faith? Isn't rejection of formal Catholic teachings a worse thing than feeling left out? "

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put him back in. After years of letting Catholics do and think what they want, and letting them get ignorant of the Catechism, how can you expect them to confirm something they've never lived, but yet they've always considered themselves as Catholic (and they were even previously validated by Catholic leadership)?

For example, most Catholics I've talked to don't know that it's a mortal sin to miss a weekly Mass... what happens when they discover the rules? The lukewarm will turn hot or cold-- we'll see which way they go...

...Bernie

space ghost · #3 Jul 20, '04, 1:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Administrator

Karl's E-Letter of July 20, 2004

TOPICS:

A Tale of Two Dioceses
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i looked with a little surprise at the use of the phrase [ original meaning of the word "liberal."], a definition { Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry}... at the start of the next paragraph the phrase [liberal in the usual sence too]

I don't really have a problem with the usage as much as I am the message or context, (as if all or most liberals fit that box)..

somewhat surprised....

space ghost · #4 Jul 20, '04, 1:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernied

Karl writes:

"The pastor of St. Patrick's parish in Madras also is unhappy with the "Affirmation." "It breaks my heart," said Fr. Jim Stephens, "that a number of good people ... have told me they cannot continue in parish ministry, that they cannot make the 'Affirmation of Personal Faith' because they have some reservation about some of the teachings."

Stephens says his heart is broken because these people now feel excluded. Why didn't his heart break when he discovered that they didn't accept the entirety of the Catholic faith? Isn't rejection of formal Catholic teachings a worse thing than feeling left out? "

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put him back in. After years of letting Catholics do and think what they want, and letting them get ignorant of the Catechism, how can you expect them to confirm something they've never lived, but yet they've always considered themselves as Catholic (and they were even previously validated by Catholic leadership)?

For example, most Catholics I've talked to don't know that it's a mortal sin to miss a weekly Mass... what happens when they discover the rules? The lukewarm will turn hot or cold-- we'll see which way they go...

...Bernie

you can place a lot of blame at the pulpit for that....

Connie2 · #5 Jul 20, '04, 1:34 pm

Oh, my gosh! I've been looking for Bishops like these two to take an orthodox stand on these issues. Truly, in this world of the heresy of Modernism all around us, we need to take a stand behind the teachings of the Catholic Church. There are too many catechists out there now, teaching unorthodox ideas; too many out there living the lie receiving Holy Communion; too many (seemingly)serving their parishes while blatantly standing for pro-choice and gay marriages. I am very supportive of Bishop Vasa, and wish that other prelates would follow this lead. Yes, we may loose some members because "this is a hard saying", and like the rich young man of the Gospel, they turn away sad because they cannot follow it. But, we are doing no good in the Church if we do not follow Christ as He has asked, and inspire and direct others to do likewise. Those who teach and lead in any capacity in our parishes, must first "practice what they preach".

baltobetsy · #6 Jul 20, '04, 1:45 pm

OK, everybody, pray with me:

Please God, send a bishop like these to Baltimore when Cardinal Keeler retires. Amen.

Betsy

James McMahon · #7 Jul 20, '04, 2:21 pm

Well, I'm happy and proud to say I grew up in the Baker Diocese (but live in Vermont now.) Right and wrong is not a polling issue, it isn't a convenience issue, it's Right and wrong. I've done both, mostly the latter. Good for the Bishop in Baker. There are other places to worship, other religions--go there if you don't like The Church.

bernied · #8 Jul 20, '04, 2:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Administrator

Karl's E-Letter of July 20, 2004

TOPICS:

A Tale of Two Dioceses
==========
http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_040720.asp

Article says:
""I affirm that I reject direct, intentional abortion and I do not recognize the legitimacy of anyone’s claim to a moral right to form their own conscience in this matter. I am not pro-choice.""

I don't think 'pro-choice' and 'pro-life' are not good terms to propagate. The other side isn't 'anti-choice' or 'anti-life', in is rather simply 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion'. Most Americans are neither extreme, and accept abortion in some degree.

I was surprised to hear that, for Catholics, abortion is not considered in any case-- even if it is the life of the mother vs. the baby (even if it is an extremely rare case). Some people think they are playing 'God' in such a decision, but I'm sorry, sometimes we have to make tough decisions and can't just put our head in the sand and hope something happens... God wants us to be mature and seek Him for guidance...

...Bernie
www.FreeGoodNews.com

condan · #9 Jul 20, '04, 2:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlKeatingsELetter

At the largest parish in the diocese, St. Francis of Assisi in Bend, more than two dozen people have withdrawn from ministry. One such person, Wilma Hens, said the "Affirmation" focused too heavily on "pelvic issues." Vasa responded by noting that he "did not set the [sexual] agenda, but the world set that agenda."

Pelvic issues! Tha's the best! Anyone who uses that phrase should be asked to leave.

Seriously, though, the damage done by those in "ministerial" positions (or any position of leadership) who don't adhere to the basic tenets of the faith is immeasurable. It perpetuates the myth that you can make your own rules to suit your personal needs, desires and lifestyle.

Having spent the last 5 years in a very liberal, progressive parish. I have seen first hand the damage done, especially to the children in the school.

cmacri · #10 Jul 20, '04, 2:57 pm

Praise the Lord! My husband and I were married 14 years ago in the Diocese of Richmond back before we really started practicing the faith in earnest. I remember a pre-Cana class that talked about methods of birth control and being a bit surprised - even though we were using it at the time. It's been several years since we watched our wedding video, but I am almost afraid to because of all the liturgical abuses - I think we gave each other Communion. Thank goodness for apostolates like Catholic Answers, now we know better. To his credit, our priest did berate us for living together and said that it had to stop until after the wedding.

Kevan · #11 Jul 20, '04, 3:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernied

I was surprised to hear that, for Catholics, abortion is not considered in any case-- even if it is the life of the mother vs. the baby (even if it is an extremely rare case). Some people think they are playing 'God' in such a decision, but I'm sorry, sometimes we have to make tough decisions

When it comes down to that situation, Bernie, the doctor tries to deliver the baby. If the baby is lost, it's a tragedy, but "we did our best." There's all the difference in the world between delivering the baby and executing the baby.

bernied · #12 Jul 20, '04, 3:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevan

When it comes down to that situation, Bernie, the doctor tries to deliver the baby. If the baby is lost, it's a tragedy, but "we did our best." There's all the difference in the world between delivering the baby and executing the baby.

See this case as an example:

From: http://www.bfl.org/mothers_health.htm (pro-life)

"What of an unruptured ectopic pregnancy? Eventually, such a pregnancy is not viable and the result is fatal for the baby and potentially fatal for the mother due to blood loss. Standard medical procedure calls for removal of the embryo as soon as an ectopic pregnancy is diagnosed. Treatment to save a mother's life which has an indirect, unintended, and unavoidable consequence, or "double effect," that causes a baby to die is not an abortion."

Some interesting Catholic teaching is here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046b.htm

...Bernie

Mike O · #13 Jul 20, '04, 3:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Administrator

Karl's E-Letter of July 20, 2004

"...there were de rigueur commissions dealing with women, people with AIDS, black Catholics, and social justice issues."

I can guess the commissions dealing with women and AIDS were respectively pushing women's ordination and homosexual sensitivity, but where is the problem with the latter two commissions regarding black Catholics and social justice?

The first part implies there is a problem by stating that the bishop was a liberal in the "usual" (re: bad) sense. Then it speaks of the commissions.

ckbrown · #14 Jul 20, '04, 4:16 pm

Bishop Vasa came to the Baker Diocese about 5 years ago, about the same time that I was "born again" in my Catholic faith...having been born & raised in a small rural parish in the Baker Diocese and raising my family there now. Bishop Vasa is an amazing, holy, strong, impassioned, serious, humble, Spirit-filled conservative, orthodox man from the Diocese of Lincoln....what an amazing gift to our sparsely populated mostly rural diocese in eastern/central Oregon.

I have had the pleasure to get to know him over the years, especially as I have been a part of the diocese's fledging evangelization program based upon the SINE model (done very well in Lincoln diocese!). I attended the meeting in my deanery (1-2 hours drive away from Madras & Bend, mentioned in Karl's letter) a few months ago when he presented the "Giving Testimony to the Truth" pastoral letter...you could feel the tension in the air, several people got up and walked out, but also there was an amazing sense of joy and YAHOO someone is speaking the truths and PRAISE GOD for our tough, honest, correct bishop! Two notes I wrote included Psalm 119, happy/blessed are those who obey God and do His will/His work as revealed in His word and Jesus's statement If you love Me you will obey My commands.
I have grown much in my faith over the past few years and the Holy Spirit is working to correct areas of fault & sin as I slowly come more & more into obedience to the Lord's Word and the teachings of His Church....but I can't honestly say I am "there yet" completely with the entire affirmation of personal faith, either! It takes a long time for the Holy Spirit to work on our stubborn human nature and to root out sin and replace it with joyful obedience. However, in my marriage of almost 20 years, we HAVE resolved the "pelvic issues" and I DID help collect signatures for the preservation of marriage (one man/one woman) movement! In my small rural church, our pastor has not yet gotten to the point of having each person involved in ministry sign the affirmation, and I'm not familiar with what is happening in other parishes.

Read the document, pray through it, and ask the Holy Spirit to help you in your walk of joyful obedience!!!

deogratias · #15 Jul 20, '04, 4:27 pm

What great news. We also have Bishop Sheridan, new to Colorado Springs this past year who is making great moves towards orthodoxy and in Phoenix Diocese, Bishop Thomas Olmsted also is making changes that support Catholic Teaching. When I read about these Bishops and others like them, my heart is uplifted and I know that it is true that God will protect his Church.

Thanks for the report, Karl.