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  #1  
Old Nov 25, '05, 8:25 am
dizzy_dave dizzy_dave is offline
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Exclamation Knights of Columbus: Why the secret oaths & initiations?

Hi,
I am a 33 year old practicing Catholic man. My father was a Knight of Columbus, he died about 10 years ago, before I had any inerest in this group. One thing has held me back from joining, I sent e-mails to the main offices and they never acknowledged them, I ask people who are in this group why the secrecy and what oaths do you take? What do you do at the initiation, no one will tell me, I'd like to know before I get into a group what they do, I will not do anything that contradicts my faith. I found these websites yesterday, I don't really believe what they say but, can you see how this makes the Knights look, when you can't get an answer it looks suspicious. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to disrespect this group, I just don't understand the secrecy with the oaths and initiations. After you check these out you'll see how I feel. Thanks and God bless you all.

www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesuits.htm
www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1668.cfm
www.cephasministry.com/knights_of_columbus.html
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  #2  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:05 am
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Gwyn Gwyn is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Hello
I know the fact that there is secrecy makes you wonder.
My Dad and Hubby are knights and trust me unless you are one, you will never find out.
DH does not hide anything from me but this is one thing that is not up for discussion.
But I am 200% sure that thay follow all the teachings of the Catholic church and everything is legit.
They do pray a lot and call each other Bro. and help each other.
We always go to all the family KofC events - Pasta Night, Bowling night, Kids Chirstmas party, .... I like that DH is involved in the KofC. Too bad his work does not permit him to attend the meetings.
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  #3  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:16 am
edward_george edward_george is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

These websites are so full of bunk it's not even funny...

Take this for example, from the one entitled "The Jesuit, Illuminati, Knights of Columbus...."

Quote:
with the word INRI, and below them the words IUSTUM, NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS. The meaning of which is: It is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.
INRI means nothing of the sort--It stands for the Latin words meaning "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INRI

The KofC oath on these pages was long ago proved to be a fake. A Google search of "Knights of Columbus Oath fake" yields a few pages that verify this.

http://www.kofc.nf.ca/history3.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9402drag.asp

These websites are so ardently anti-Catholic that they are in no way good sources of information about the KofC, aside from associating the KofC with the Catholic Church. Quotes like this should be a dead giveaway

Quote:
It is our understanding that there are four degrees in it with similar sort of oaths as the Lodge. However, you do also have to swear loyalty to the Pope. This sort of thing makes the KCs as bad as the Masons [from a biblical point of view] since they do have the oaths which Jesus forbids. (Matthew 5:34-37)
Quote:
Yet, the KCs are not as deeply steeped in occult symbolism as are the Masons.
But there is the whole issue of the fact they are thoroughly Catholic, and the Roman Catholic church has some `cultic' problems, in, and of, itself as it:
1) denies salvation by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9)
2) denies the all-sufficient, `once-for-all' character of Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary (Hebrews 9:28)

3) denies that the Bible is the sole and final authority for divine truth (2 Timothy 3:16);
4) places creatures, like Mary and saints, as mediators between humanity and Christ (1 Timothy 2:5);
5) claims to have a now-functional, sacrificing priesthood (Hebrews 7:24-26)
No attempt is made to give how the Church feels about these verses, and most of these claims are just lies.

A look at a few things about the real KofC, and not this "Masonic knock-off" that these websites purport is the KofC should clear up any suspicions about them.

http://www.kofc.org/un/index.cfm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08670c.htm

-ACEGC
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  #4  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:43 am
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Hello Dizzy Dave,

I just became a third degree Knight in October. I was apprehensive about joinging becuase of the 'Secrets" also. If we were to speak of what happens it would ruin it for those that join after us. Why would I do that? I can assure you it is not a cult and it is faithful to the Church. I am an extraordinary minister at my church, an altar server and teach religion. I am also a secular Franciscan. I know my faith and I know my Bible. I would recognize a cult if I came across one.

Peace.
  #5  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:50 am
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

I was reading the links you provided and came across this "Remember, just as in Masonry [Read free001a], Knights of Columbus has a hidden inner sanctum, hidden even from the active members of the outer, public organization. This hidden K of C is the real threat, as it is full of occult power, absolutely secret, and Masonic in organization and even some practices and symbols.

There is no evidence for this except a link that brings you to a Free masonry site. This is nonsense.
  #6  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:57 am
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Hi Dave! My dh is a 3rd and 4th Degree Knight, so I know that at nearly every initiation a priest is present, either to be enrolled as a member himself or simply as a witness. Priests and deacons do not take the KC oaths because they have already vowed themselves in service to Christ and his Church. I'm just about 100% positive that that is the kind of oath they take--nothing at all sinister or against the faith of the Church. Also, it might help you to know that the popes have, again and again, highly commended the Knights for their charitable work around the world and for their faithfulness to the Church. Believe me, they are totally Catholic.
  #7  
Old Nov 25, '05, 1:02 pm
Santa Cruz Santa Cruz is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della
Hi Dave! My dh is a 3rd and 4th Degree Knight, so I know that at nearly every initiation a priest is present, either to be enrolled as a member himself or simply as a witness. Priests and deacons do not take the KC oaths because they have already vowed themselves in service to Christ and his Church. I'm just about 100% positive that that is the kind of oath they take--nothing at all sinister or against the faith of the Church. Also, it might help you to know that the popes have, again and again, highly commended the Knights for their charitable work around the world and for their faithfulness to the Church. Believe me, they are totally Catholic.
I'm not a Knight but I know the men in my Parish that are and they are all great Catholic men. I'm not a Knight because thats not my calling.
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  #8  
Old Nov 25, '05, 1:28 pm
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
I'm not a Knight but I know the men in my Parish that are and they are all great Catholic men. I'm not a Knight because thats not my calling.
Many priests and deacons, diocesan and religious, are members of the Knights. They find the Knights are the backbone of many parishes, who are there to help their clergy in any way he may need.
  #9  
Old Nov 25, '05, 3:42 pm
dizzy_dave dizzy_dave is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

That's good to hear, but WHY the secrecy? I don't understand that.
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  #10  
Old Nov 25, '05, 5:09 pm
Bulldog Bulldog is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzy_dave
That's good to hear, but WHY the secrecy? I don't understand that.
Well, think of it this way. If it was your birthday and people were planning a surprise party for you, would you want to know about it or what gifts you were getting??
Ever heard the old phrase:
Person: Can you keep a secret?
Person: Yes.
Person: So can I.

In no way, does the Knights contradict the morals of the Catholic Faith.
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  #11  
Old Nov 25, '05, 5:23 pm
dizzy_dave dizzy_dave is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Ok, so they are a seret society then, because no one can tell what is going on within, that sounds secretive to me, for a Catholic organization this makes no sense to me. I guess this just wouldn't be for me.
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When you look at a crucifix you understand how much Jesus loved you. When you look at the Sacred Host you understand how much Jesus loves you NOW. - Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
  #12  
Old Nov 25, '05, 5:47 pm
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Tedster Tedster is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzy_dave
Ok, so they are a seret society then, because no one can tell what is going on within, that sounds secretive to me, for a Catholic organization this makes no sense to me. I guess this just wouldn't be for me.
I am a Knight of Columbus in the Third Degree. I don't think your term "secretive society" is correct at all. Only the initiation process and the oaths you take arre secret. Our council does many acts of charity for our parish and our community. These are witnessed by many. Many benefit from these acts of charity and good works.

One of our councils main goals is to sponsor seminarians and give them financial aid as they journey through the process of becoming a priest.

I think you may miss out on a great organization if you hold to the thought that the group is a "secretive society".
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  #13  
Old Nov 25, '05, 6:03 pm
CatholicCid CatholicCid is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

I'm gonna have to go with dizzy on this and ask why the secrecy? I have no doubt that KoC is a great organization, but why shroud some mystery in there?
What would be the reasons for it... All it seems to do is create controversy as to why they have it.
  #14  
Old Nov 25, '05, 6:04 pm
Bulldog Bulldog is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzy_dave
Ok, so they are a seret society then, because no one can tell what is going on within, that sounds secretive to me, for a Catholic organization this makes no sense to me. I guess this just wouldn't be for me.
The knights are not a secret society. Just what happens when you become a knight (going through the process)is not talked about, for reasons you would understand once you go through the degrees. Otherwise, we can talk about everything else that we do.
The Knights were formed to help poor catholic family (including Widows and Orphans) and as a way to foster faith against anti-catholicism. We do many things... including paying for the video feed for the pope so people can see him during Christmas Mass.
My friend, IMHO it seems that you are allowing people's words to run through your head and you confusingly believe them (including anti-catholic sites). Go and find a local knight and talk with him. Look at the links others gave you above. Also If I were you, I'd start praying to the Blessed Mother for help during this confusion. You are in my prayers...
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  #15  
Old Nov 25, '05, 9:12 pm
Elliott Elliott is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus why secret oaths & initiations?

Did anyone check out those links? I'm skeptical about the vows authenticity. Could it be that this was an anti-catholic piece of propaganda that had been around and that these anti-catholic sites picked up on?
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