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  #1  
Old Mar 19, '14, 1:53 am
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

Hello everyone. I was wondering how one could argue against Messianic Judaism which is also known as "Jews for Jesus" in some sects I believe. I don't know a whole lot about them but from what I understand, they retain the laws of the Old Covenant while still embracing the New Covenant as well. Here are a couple of neutral links where you can learn about their beliefs:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mess_jud.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

http://www.religionfacts.com/christi..._for_jesus.htm

God bless,
Holly
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  #2  
Old Mar 19, '14, 4:45 am
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Back2Church Back2Church is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

What are you wanting to argue against them? Messianic Jews aren't like protestants, seeking to distinguish themselves from the Catholic church and causing schism. They are Jews who have accepted Christ as the messiah and have moved one step closer to the church. I'm not sure I could argue against that.
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  #3  
Old Mar 19, '14, 4:52 am
MaryandJoseph MaryandJoseph is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

I had a neighbor who considers herself to be a "Completed Jew".

Sometime in her 20's, she found Christ and converted to the Catholic faith.

She is a great source of knowledge though concerning the Old Testament as I would go to her with questions on things I did not understand.

When my mother died at home after a long illness, she came over and bathed her while reciting Jewish prayers over her ( it was a truly beautiful experience). Then we prayed the Rosary together.

She never has forgotten her Jewish roots and is a great reminder to me that Jesus Himself was a Jew. My Christian faith is stronger because, partly through her, I have a better understanding of the Hebrew bible. Now if only I could pronounce some of those names

.
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  #4  
Old Mar 19, '14, 5:11 am
LegoGE1947 LegoGE1947 is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryandJoseph View Post
I had a neighbor who considers herself to be a "Completed Jew".

Sometime in her 20's, she found Christ and converted to the Catholic faith.

She is a great source of knowledge though concerning the Old Testament as I would go to her with questions on things I did not understand.

When my mother died at home after a long illness, she came over and bathed her while reciting Jewish prayers over her ( it was a truly beautiful experience). Then we prayed the Rosary together.

She never has forgotten her Jewish roots and is a great reminder to me that Jesus Himself was a Jew. My Christian faith is stronger because, partly through her, I have a better understanding of the Hebrew bible. Now if only I could pronounce some of those names

.
There is a woman, I think she used to be a CAF apologist, name of Rosalind Moss. She was a Jew who became Catholic and now, I understand, has become a nun.
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  #5  
Old Mar 19, '14, 5:57 am
MaryandJoseph MaryandJoseph is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

I have heard Rosalind Ross on EWTN many times. A truly Holy woman
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  #6  
Old Mar 19, '14, 7:00 am
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Peter J Peter J is offline
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Default Re: Good & Bad reasons to change rites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
Hello everyone. I was wondering how one could argue against Messianic Judaism which is also known as "Jews for Jesus" in some sects I believe. I don't know a whole lot about them but from what I understand, they retain the laws of the Old Covenant while still embracing the New Covenant as well. Here are a couple of neutral links where you can learn about their beliefs:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mess_jud.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

http://www.religionfacts.com/christi..._for_jesus.htm

God bless,
Holly
Hi Holly. Can you give us a clearer idea what you are looking for? I know many Jews are offended by Messianic Judaism (e.g. the name is misleading) but I take it you are talking about objections from a Christian perspective.
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  #7  
Old Mar 19, '14, 8:05 am
VanSensei VanSensei is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

There's an idea known as "syncretism", in which religions are fused together in practice. The people of Japan do this heavily, in which they'll visit Shinto temples in order to say, mourn the dead or bless a child but have a Buddhist funeral. Very few Japanese are solely either one, and it could be likened to Roman Catholics lighting Orthodox prayer candles while crossing themselves right to left. That is fine as they do not conflict beliefs.

The less separated from the Catholic Church you go, the more certain branches of denominations will seem Catholic in their practices and worship because of influence. Some Lutheran churches will have altar rails, candles, ad orientem worship and intricate vestments. Same goes for the Anglicans, who will sometimes call their services "Mass" if they're on the Anglo-Catholic side of the spectrum complete with incense, veneration of the saints and Our Blessed Mother, Vespers and many things that would give it the impression that it was a Catholic parish holding very traditional, Tridentine Mass-like, services frequently. That, too is fine. No Catholic belief is being impugned or denied by these practices.

What puts Messianic Judaism on the side of massive error is that it combines two beliefs that cannot fundamentally coexist together - Judaism, which rests its faith on the Old Covenant of Moses, and Christianity, because the two have a completely different way of worshiping that clashes and fights.

The main tenet of Judaism is the Shema, based on the Hebrew verb "to hear", and is found in Deuteronomy 6:4. "Shema Israel, Adonai eloheinu, adonai echad." "Hear, O Israel, The Lord is our God and our God is one." This confirms the idea of the Oneness of God that the Jewish religion has.

Now, let's look at Matthew 11:27, which plainly states that "no one knows the Father except the Son", which blatantly describes the need Christianity has for the second person of the Trinity. Acts 2:38 adds a third person to that concept. With three persons already revealed to us in the New Testament under the auspices of Our Lord - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, you already have the Oneness idea and the Judaism part of quote, "Messianic Judaism", unquote, completely refuted. As such, the religion makes no sense whatsoever, save for some practices they do like calling the name of Jesus "Yeshua", from the original Aramaic/Hebrew, because some Pentecostal groups do that a lot.

That's why Messianic Judaism makes no sense.
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  #8  
Old Mar 19, '14, 8:52 am
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Re: Good & Bad reasons to change rites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Hi Holly. Can you give us a clearer idea what you are looking for? I know many Jews are offended by Messianic Judaism (e.g. the name is misleading) but I take it you are talking about objections from a Christian perspective.
Well, I think I am wanting to know how to convince them that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled in the New Covenant and therefore we do not follow all of the laws of the Old Covenant such as the dietary restrictions and clothing restrictions.
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"If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself." -- Saint Augustine of Hippo

"The holy Rosary is a powerful weapon. Use it with confidence and you'll be amazed at the results."
--St. Josemaria Escriva

“One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, Our Lady will save the world.”
--Saint Dominic

"Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world."
--Blessed Pope Pius IX


Our Lady's 15 Promises to Those Who Pray the Rosary

Come, pray the Rosary

My Live Journal

Holly's Catholic Blog
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  #9  
Old Mar 19, '14, 10:01 am
Filioque Filioque is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

among the problems with the Messianic Jewish groups is that they were founded by Protestant Evangelicals, who like many things they do, took an idea and ran with it. Among the first "Rabbis" of the movement were secular Jews who had become Evangelicals and re-interpreted Judaism in the light of Evangelical Protestantism. None have any extensive Jewish education, so they simply mimic Jewish liturgical practices to one extent of the other sometimes with no understanding of them. It is basically Evangelical Protestantism with a Jewish veneer.

As for the Jews for Jesus, when I lived in a neighborhood that was heavily Jewish they would do door to door campaigns and target Jewish households, preaching hell if you rejected Jesus, even among the homes of those who were survivors of Nazi death camps. Sadly the tactics turned many who may have been able to hear the Gospel away.
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  #10  
Old Mar 19, '14, 10:01 am
Marie5890 Marie5890 is offline
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Default Re: Good & Bad reasons to change rites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
Well, I think I am wanting to know how to convince them that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled in the New Covenant and therefore we do not follow all of the laws of the Old Covenant such as the dietary restrictions and clothing restrictions.
I dont believe there is any sin in living the Old Covenant regulations. Do they believe that the NEED for salvation purposes? If so, there is a misunderstanding.

If however, they chose to live it due to tradition, I see no problem with that. I have seen some who identify themselves are Hebrew Catholic wearing the yarmulke. I see it as their respecting their Hebrew background and tradition.

(Sort of like the whole idea of women veiling themselves. They dont have to, but they choose to)
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  #11  
Old Mar 19, '14, 10:02 am
Marie5890 Marie5890 is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filioque View Post
among the problems with the Messianic Jewish groups is that they were founded by Protestant Evangelicals, who like many things they do, took an idea and ran with it. Among the first "Rabbis" of the movement were secular Jews who had become Evangelicals and re-interpreted Judaism in the light of Evangelical Protestantism. None have any extensive Jewish education, so they simply mimic Jewish liturgical practices to one extent of the other sometimes with no understanding of them. It is basically Evangelical Protestantism with a Jewish veneer.

As for the Jews for Jesus, when I lived in a neighborhood that was heavily Jewish they would do door to door campaigns and target Jewish households, preaching hell if you rejected Jesus, even among the homes of those who were survivors of Nazi death camps. Sadly the tactics turned many who may have been able to hear the Gospel away.
Thanks for that expounded explanation. I didnt know this
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  #12  
Old Mar 19, '14, 7:33 pm
DelsonJacobs DelsonJacobs is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

I am a Roman Catholic with a Jewish heritage, of the tribe of Judah.

These groups you mention believe in proselytizing Jews and often include making demands on Gentile Christians to observe the Mosaic Law. Both practices are rejected by the Catholic Church and Judaism.

While I retain many Jewish customs myself, it is only due to the fact that I was born with them. The Catholic Church does not require a person of any ethnicity or race to reject their cultural diversity and assimilate to become something else. And my Jewish friends, including a rabbi, consider me as Jewish as they are. My language and my heritage are just one of the many found within the Roman Catholic Church, the place I as a Jew call "home." In this home you find Irish Catholics and African Catholics and Mexican Catholics and even Jewish (or Hebrew) Catholics like myself. We consider ourselves one in Christ despite our culture differences.

Jews don't believe that observing the Law "saves" a person. So when Gentiles demand observing the Law as a requisite to Christian salvation, they speak against the Law. Abraham, both Jews and Christians testify, was made right with God by faith. He was given no law to follow. No law "saved" him, and the promises given to him for his offspring were guaranteed before one letter of the Law came into existence. The Law came afterwards, once his offspring became a nation, as part of that people's constitution. Those of other nations do not follow the constitution of a nation not their own. To insist a non-Jew follows the customs of a Jew to be saved is to promise something even Jews don't believe will come from their observance of Torah.

For more information on the Catholic Church's view of Jews, and especially on questions regarding them and the New Covenant, see http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wors...-relations.cfm.
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  #13  
Old Mar 19, '14, 10:02 pm
IgnatianPhilo IgnatianPhilo is offline
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Default Re: Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

Ask them where all the messianic Jews were hiding for two thousand years. Also ask them why they are using a group of books (bible) which were distributed, preserved and studied by Orthodox Christians instead of their own gospels.

That's what I ask the ultra messianic, the one who says Sunday worship is pagan, the one who refers to the New testament but doesn't call it scripture or consider it authoritative, the one who says we still need to eat kosher and be circumcised.

There are Messianic who simply have more of a Hebrew emphasis and practice some of the old law without forcing it on any one else, but I can't help but think they make the same mistake that Paul chides the Galatians for. If righteousness could be attained by the law, Christ died for nothing.
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