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  #1  
Old Dec 7, '05, 5:06 pm
The Iambic Pen The Iambic Pen is offline
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Default Better to spill your seed...?

I was talking with a Catholic friend of mine about how the Church's view is that masturbation is a mortal sin (soldiers have a tendency to openly discuss things others may consider taboo ). He agreed that this was indeed the Church's teaching, but he went on to say, "Yes, but it also says it is better to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than spill it on the ground." I was unable to find this passage in the Bible, and I was wondering if the Catholic Church ever taught anything resembling this. A Protestant friend had mentioned the same thing earlier. Neither one of them are very religious, and I have a feeling this is some sort of "urban legend." My understanding is that both acts are wrong, as they take place outside of intercourse between a husband and wife.

I apologize if this question is a bit too explicit for the forum, and I assure you all I have no desire to offend anyone. I was just surprised by what he said, and I wondered if there was any basis for it whatsoever. Thank you and God bless!
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  #2  
Old Dec 7, '05, 6:04 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

I have heard the phrase before, but have never encountered it in the Bible. As I recall it was in a Newman Club discussion [50 years ago]. I suspect that it is from one of the Church Fathers, but don't have any leads to offer.
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  #3  
Old Dec 7, '05, 6:08 pm
RyanL RyanL is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Urban Legend. No such saying.

God Bless,
RyanL
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  #4  
Old Dec 7, '05, 8:04 pm
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bauerice bauerice is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Many years ago, before I came into the Church, I used to have an Old Dakes Bible. They had a listing of common quotes that were NOT in the Bible. That was one of them.
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Old Dec 8, '05, 2:54 am
The Iambic Pen The Iambic Pen is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Thanks! Now I can turn my attention to things of greater importance...
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Old Dec 8, '05, 3:19 am
Isidore_AK Isidore_AK is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Is it possible that it may come from one of the Deuterocanonical works? The 'Blue-Letter Bible' link is based off of the KJV, and doesn't seem to use the Deuterocanonicals...

This also doesn't answer whether it may be from some writing of one of the Church Fathers...
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Old Dec 8, '05, 3:35 am
The Iambic Pen The Iambic Pen is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

That is true...Hmmhh...
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Old Dec 8, '05, 3:24 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanL
Urban Legend. No such saying.

God Bless,
RyanL
It is not clear whether, or how far, they looked beyond the Bible.
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  #9  
Old Dec 8, '05, 5:13 pm
Benedictus Benedictus is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

It would, however, be consistent with the thoughts of the Scholastics like St. Thomas Aquinas, not that I'd necessarily agree with that.

I, however, do think that masturbation is worse than fornicating with a girlfriend or boyfriend.
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Old Dec 8, '05, 9:20 pm
batteddy batteddy is offline
 
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Quote:
My understanding is that both acts are wrong, as they take place outside of intercourse between a husband and wife.
Both acts are wrong, but masturbation is worse than prostitution IF you don't use artificial contraception with the prostitute AND you don't take into account factors like addiction and all that stuff discussed in the catechism about pastoral care of masturbation. Prostitution is more wrong if you use contraception, because that is basically just masturbating with another person's body.

But premarital sex is still "natural" from a Scholastic perspective. It is wrong because it is not between a husband and wife, but from the perspective of Natural Law...it is still the rightly ordered sex act toward procreation by the physical union of a man and a woman.

Acts which spill the seed non-procreatively (gay sex acts, bestiality, masturbation, contraception)...are worse than a natural but premarital sex act.
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Old Dec 9, '05, 12:17 am
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Belly of a whore doesn't even make sense. Then again maybe it does if you're sick enough.

From my vantage point here about 10 miles south of Park City, where BTK stalked but did not attack my dear SIL, I might have a skewed view.

I heard (but did not watch on TV) that Dennis Rader did sometimes "spill seed" on his victims before he left them. For some reason "on the belly of a whore" just doesn't sound like the moral high ground.

I'd say better to leave this non-teaching alone, with wide berth.

Some Catholics say practically anything, it seems, about masturbation -- wouldn't surprise me if many believe this sort of stuff.

Alan
  #12  
Old Dec 9, '05, 2:51 am
The Iambic Pen The Iambic Pen is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Well, not to keep harping on this subject, but I think the idea behind the saying is that it is better to have sexual intercourse with a prostitute than to masturbate. The term "in the belly of a whore," probably refers to the womb, the natural, ordered destination of "seed." Whether this is true or not is debatable from my point of view, for the simple reasons that the consequences of sleeping with a prostitute could be more severe than the consequences of masturbation. In any case, both are sins, so to argue extensively about which is worse serves no purpose.
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  #13  
Old Dec 9, '05, 5:38 am
mlchance mlchance is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Saying that one grave sin is better than another is sort of like David Berkowitz bragging that he wasn't as bad a serial killer as John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy.

-- Mark L. Chance.
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  #14  
Old Dec 9, '05, 6:25 am
Filius Prodigus Filius Prodigus is offline
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Default Interesting question: What if a priest...

What would you think of a priest masturbates to avoid fornicating? Or a nun or friar? What about a homosexual?

I don't know if it's an urban legend, but I've always thought that there was a principle that goes something like "Of two evils, choose the smallest" or something.
  #15  
Old Dec 9, '05, 6:44 am
patrick456 patrick456 is offline
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Default Re: Better to spill your seed...?

Either the guy was just joking or inventing that up or misheard some quote.
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