OReilly - Bishops fail to address Christmas

Elzee · #1 Dec 15, '05, 4:54 am

Anyone see Bill OReilly last night? He had Fr McBrien on (never heard of him ) and the young priest from the Leg of Christ who has become a semi-regular Church rep on Fox (usually pretty good but I was disappointed in him last night).

Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the 'war on Christmas' and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it. He finally said he found one - but I can't remember his name - anybody remember?

He commented that evangelical pastors are very vocal on this issue and the Catholic Church should be taking the lead on this. As he put it to the Leg. of Christ priest: "if you can't stick up for Baby Jesus, who can you stick up for?"

Something Fr. McBrien said bothered me, but I have to admit I also agree..he said that the evangelical Christian is becoming the 'face of Christianity' in the U.S. as opposed to Catholicism (or mainstream Protestants).

I guess this thread is 2-fold:
Why do you think the U.S.Bishops and priests haven't been more vocal?
Do you think Fr. McBrien is right about the 'face of Christianity'?

I emailed Bill with a couple Bishops I wish he would ask to be on his show - maybe if you can think of some you can send them to him too. I hope our Church is well-represented next week on his show, but I'm worried it won't be.

deb1 · #2 Dec 15, '05, 5:14 am

I don't know about the reason the Catholic church isn't more vocal.

I do agree that evangilical Christianity is becoming the face of American Christianity. I have nothing against evangilical Christianity but there seems to be a lack of acceptance for other viewpoints among them.(I am not saying that this is true of all evangilicals) You hear more of Christians that are to the right of an issue then those who are more moderate. The danger in this is that it gives the general populance the impression that we are all lock step in agreement on every issue when we aren't.

I also think that it accidentally alienates a lot of people, who think that all Christians are fundamentalists, so that they close their minds to Christ's message.

Fitz · #3 Dec 15, '05, 5:33 am

I also saw the segment. I agree the young priest was not too articulate last night. McBrien is the dissident priest from Notre Dame. It makes me mad when OReilly has him on. He usually is very vocal agaist Rome. Last night he wasn't so bad.

My sermon last Sunday was about putting Christ back into Christmas. I don't think it is the Catholic style to go public and go media. However, perhaps we need some new spokespeople for the church.

Ahimsa · #4 Dec 15, '05, 5:35 am

Evangelical Christianity has always been the face of American Christianity -- or at least, it often has, for much of American history. (And by "evangelical", I mean Christianity that seeks to evangelize actively.)

I don't get this war on Christmas thing. Is it a California phenomenon?

Elzee · #5 Dec 15, '05, 5:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

I also saw the segment. I agree the young priest was not too articulate last night. McBrien is the dissident priest from Notre Dame. It makes me mad when OReilly has him on. He usually is very vocal agaist Rome. Last night he wasn't so bad.

Okay, now I remember hearing a little about McBrien - at least his name. I guess what threw me off is he actually seemed okay last night. He surprised me when he said that American Bishops aren't saying anything because they look to Rome for direction...that's about the last thing I would have said since it seems our U.S. Bishps like to do their own thing!! But, maybe he meant it as a way to point the blame in the direction of Rome..who knows.

Scoobyshme · #6 Dec 15, '05, 5:52 am

Ahimsa, it's more a problem in liberal areas of the country. Yes, California is certainly one, but also the Northeast is infected with lots of liberals. You and I live in the Bible belt, so we probably wouldn't see it except in those places that are influenced by the aforementioned areas. They have addressed it, for the most part, and those areas (some big retailers) have changed their tune pretty quick!

Orionthehunter · #7 Dec 15, '05, 7:12 am

Personally, I think the reason that the Church leaders have been silent is the uproar is grounded in the commercial aspects of the season. Frankly, if a major retail chain wants to only say "Happy Holidays", I couldn't care less. I don't take my theological direction from Sears. The Bishops have a much more important agenda.

I know some will say this is related to the agenda to remove God from our lives and they may be right. But I'm more concerned with the nature of the video games they are selling that promote rape, violence, and carnage than whether or not the sign says "Merry Christmas." In fact, I think in some ways the use of "Christmas" in the face of the debauchery they are marketing would be more irreverant.

And maybe, with the retailers separation of Christmas and their marketing efforts, Christians will take their lead and focus more on the Incarnation and less on what is under the tree. Now that would be a miracle!

TPJCatholic · #8 Dec 15, '05, 8:09 am

I think that that the Bishops are still gun shy from the assault they have suffered as a result of the abuse scandal. Such sins always causes lasting damage and I think it is going to be years before the Church in this country regains its voice.

Beyond that I am sure that I would call it a war on Christmas, I think there has been a war on Christianity for many years and Christmas is simply another battleground in that war. Aetheist have targeted Christianity for years because they know we are their real enemy.

BTW, my local Priests did a great job of supporting Christmas in a recent homily.

DreadVandal · #9 Dec 15, '05, 8:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elzee

Anyone see Bill OReilly last night? He had Fr McBrien on (never heard of him ) and the young priest from the Leg of Christ who has become a semi-regular Church rep on Fox (usually pretty good but I was disappointed in him last night).

Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the 'war on Christmas' and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it. He finally said he found one - but I can't remember his name - anybody remember?

He commented that evangelical pastors are very vocal on this issue and the Catholic Church should be taking the lead on this. As he put it to the Leg. of Christ priest: "if you can't stick up for Baby Jesus, who can you stick up for?"

Something Fr. McBrien said bothered me, but I have to admit I also agree..he said that the evangelical Christian is becoming the 'face of Christianity' in the U.S. as opposed to Catholicism (or mainstream Protestants).

I guess this thread is 2-fold:
Why do you think the U.S.Bishops and priests haven't been more vocal?
Do you think Fr. McBrien is right about the 'face of Christianity'?

I emailed Bill with a couple Bishops I wish he would ask to be on his show - maybe if you can think of some you can send them to him too. I hope our Church is well-represented next week on his show, but I'm worried it won't be.

Evangelical Christianity has always been the face of Christianity in the U.S. The U.S. is evangelical in its roots and has always been a fundamentally protestant country.

I don't know what to think. I think O'Reilly likes to run his mouth a lot. Has he really done an exhaustive study of this issue? I doubt it. He's an entertainer and a journalist. And what would the Bishops say anyway? Christmas has always been, and always will be, a Catholic liturgical holiday. Society can make war on Christmas all it wants but it isn't doing anything unless it forbids the Christmas Mass to be said. To be honest, its not clear to me why protestants should celebrate Christmas, since most don't accept the Catholic liturgical calendar.

TPJCatholic · #10 Dec 15, '05, 8:28 am

Dread,

Protestants (many of them) do not even know we have something called a liturgical calendar. Christmas is celebrated on Decemeber 25th and they celebrate our Lord's birth. They did give a hoot about the Catholic calendar.

mikew262 · #11 Dec 15, '05, 8:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahimsa

I don't get this war on Christmas thing. Is it a California phenomenon?

I wish it was only California. It's ongoing all over this country. It's just a visible symptom of a much bigger problem, secular forces trying to take apart this country's Christian culture.

jman507 · #12 Dec 15, '05, 8:45 am

The worrisome thing is trying to make religion a private relationship with no business in the public square.

TPJCatholic · #13 Dec 15, '05, 9:05 am

I just sent this email to BO's address:

Bill,

Attacking the Bishops of your own faith is not helpful. The Bishops realize that the war is on Christianity, not on Christmas. The Bishops know that to win this war they must win back souls to Christ...worrying about how secular stores behave will not help cure the culture, winning souls will. Respectfully, you might try being helpful to your own faith and try to see a larger picture.

JKirkLVNV · #14 Dec 15, '05, 9:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elzee

He surprised me when he said that American Bishops aren't saying anything because they look to Rome for direction.

Fallen on floor....stich in side....drool on keyboard....help....please!

Besides, they've had direction! The Holy Father jumped all over consumerism at Christmas. Wouldn't that be a good place to start?

Guar Fan · #15 Dec 15, '05, 10:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elzee

Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the 'war on Christmas' and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it.

Perhaps they are silent because ithere is no "war on Christmas'.

Rather than focusing on the reason for the season, the so-called war is focused on the commercial hoopla of Christmastime. I think this is part of the same mentality that favors closing churches on Christmas so that people can stay home and have private family time opening gifts.

Christ is the reason for Christmas. It doesn't matter if someone says "Happy Holidays " or if they say "Merry Christmas". What matters is that we remember and celebrate Christ's birth - and the greeting of a store employee isn't going to change the reverance I have for Christmas.