RSV-CE Needs Corrections

[mmortal03]

Originally Posted by jpy15026

[color=black]New[color=black] Testament only! No references to the Old Testament in the list![/size][/font]

*My Compact Scepter also has this exact same “appendix two” List.

Yeah, in the original RSV:CE, only the New Testament was changed, so that would make sense.

As far as your Scepter also having this "appendix two", what does it say for Luke 1:34, John 19:5, and
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, and 1 Corinthians 6:16? These are all different from the Ignatius Bible First Edition, so hopefully they corrected the Appendix, right?

Speaking of which, if they DID correct it, we can compare the Appendix from the Ignatius Bible First Edition to yours and figure out a lot more about the "hybridization".

[jpy15026]

As far as your Scepter also having this "appendix two", what does it say for Luke 1:34, John 19:5, and Matthew 19:5, 19:6, and 1 Corinthians 6:16?

These are all different from the Ignatius Bible First Edition, so hopefully they corrected the Appendix, right?

Although the texts are different between my Ignatius first edition and my compact Scepter , No corrections or additions were added to “appendix two” in my compact Scepter, it’s exactly the same as the “appendix two” in the Ignatius….Arruugghhh!


Speaking of which, if they DID correct it, we can compare the Appendix from the Ignatius Bible First Edition to yours and figure out a lot more about the "hybridization".

Nice try mmortal03 ,but I guess we have to do it the hard way!

[mmortal03]

Originally Posted by jpy15026

As far as your Scepter also having this "appendix two", what does it say for Luke 1:34, John 19:5, and Matthew 19:5, 19:6, and 1 Corinthians 6:16?

These are all different from the Ignatius Bible First Edition, so hopefully they corrected the Appendix, right?

Although the texts are different between my Ignatius first edition and my compact Scepter , No corrections or additions were added to “appendix two” in my compact Scepter, it’s exactly the same as the “appendix two” in the Ignatius….Arruugghhh!


Speaking of which, if they DID correct it, we can compare the Appendix from the Ignatius Bible First Edition to yours and figure out a lot more about the "hybridization".

Nice try mmortal03 ,but I guess we have to do it the hard way!

But wait, you have both! I didn't know you had both. So, even "the hard way" for you is easier than what is possible for me, because I don't have either, I only have the Ignatius Bible Second Edition.

If you do have some extra time, it would be great if you could do some comparisons, but no rush...I know for a fact that I don't have the time right now to just sit around and scan two Bibles line by line!

On that note, though, wouldn't it be great if all bibles came with a digital copy?

[mmortal03]

I used Amazon.com's "Search inside this book" feature to take a look at the "Appendix 2" that you mentioned. It is only 4 pages long! That isn't an exhaustive list, is it? If it is, then there really weren't that many changes made between the 1952 edition and the 1966 CE. Most of it is just changing "brothers" to "brethren" and adding in the removed verses like the 1977 edition did.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if the 1952 text is online? I can (obviously) only find the 1977 version.

[jpy15026]

On that note, though, wouldn't it be great if all bibles came with a digital copy?

That’s what I love about my Logos Libronix software, I can scroll *nine versions of the Bible simultaneously, too bad the RSVCE (Ignatius and Scepter) aren’t available!

The nine versions are the NAB,RSV,NRSV,NJB,KJV,NKJV, ASV,GNB,and the Latin Vulgate.

I also have a separate (outside of my Libronix Program) Douay Rheims and The Haydock Douay Rheims on my PC.

This is why we need the Magisterium of the Catholic Church to guide us; it’s very interesting that when I compare the subtle differences in the various versions I can understand why there are 30,000 different denominations all claiming that they have the true interpretation of the Inspired Word of God!

[jpy15026]

My Scepter numbers the Psalms "straight" from 1 to 150.

No "double numbering" from 11 to 148 as in my Ignatius (First Edition.)

[mmortal03]

The Ignatius Bible 2nd Edition doesn't have the pronunciation marks on names, the 1st Edition does. What does the Scepter/Oxford have?

[SFH]

Originally Posted by mike0219116

I already stated in another thread that the compact edition of the RSV-CE published by Oxford renders John 19:5, "Behold the man," and Luke 1:34, "And Mary said to the angel, 'How shall this be...'"

Perhaps I can shed a little light on this. The RSV-CE (first edition) that is published by Ignatius Press received an imprimatur from the British (it contains the phrase "full of grace" and is based on the 1946 translation of the New Testament). The RSV-CE published by Oxford press received an imprimatur from Cardinal Cushing of Boston (it does not contain the phrase "full of grace" and is based on the 1971 revision to the New Testament).

The RSV New Testament went through two revisions: one in 1946 and one in 1971. Recently, a New Revised Standard Version was published, but the imprimatur was withdrawn on that version.

[friarpark]

Originally Posted by johnbres2

I decided to keep my new Ignatius Second CE after all. This happened mostly because over the weekend I began to delve into JP II's "Catechesis on the Creed" works (priceless works),

Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please list the titles in the "Catechesis on the Creed" series? I was looking through amazon for it (rather quickly) and could only find 2 titles.

Thanks!!

Brian

[jpy15026]

[quote=SFH]. The RSV-CE published by Oxford press received an imprimatur from Cardinal Cushing of Boston (it does not contain the phrase "full of grace" and is based on the 1971 revision to the New Testament).

My Scepter/Oxford Press does contain"full of grace"

Imprimatur:
Gordon Joseph
Archbishop of Saint Andrew and Edinburgh

Nihil Obstat
Thomas Hanlon S.T.L.,L.S.S. ,PH.L.

Foward by John Cardinal Heenan,Archbishop of Westminster

[jpy15026]

[quote=mmortal03]
The Ignatius Bible 2nd Edition doesn't have the pronunciation marks on names, the 1st Edition does. What does the Scepter/Oxford have?



Scepter has “semi” marks. Hyphens and emphasis marks but not the consonant marks over individual letters, I like this better, helpful and less cluttered, more readable

[jpy15026]

I'm taking this up a notch:

Douay Rheims,(translated from the Vulgate into English, that our Catholic Church used for 1500 years)

Here is the info updated:

Douay Rheims:
Isaiah 7:14: "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: "Thou hast made him a little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hell"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
John 19:5: "Behold the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "***"


Original 1965 RSVCE and Ignatius Bible First Edition:
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "***"
Archaic language spoken to God.

Ignatius Bible RSV Second Catholic Edition:

Isaiah 7:14: uses Septuagint "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: uses Septuagint "Yet you have made him little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hades", footnote "powers of death"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "donkey"
Only Archaic language in a few specific cases.

Oxford Press RSVCE Compact Edition (and possibly the new Reader's Edition, we will have to see once it is released):
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
John 19:5: "Behold, the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh", no footnote
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "***"
Archaic language spoken to God.

On all three of these editions, Luke 1:28 is rendered "Hail, full of grace", and throughout the Holy Spirit is refered to with "whom" or "who" instead of "which".[/quote]

[Manfred]

Originally Posted by mmortal03

Thanks! I think this is definately going in the right direction. This thread has been my way of researching "which Bible is for me". I would say that hybridizing could produce a fine translation, if they would just pick all the right passages!

Dear mmortal03,

Actually, from the way this thread has grown since the publication of that RSV-2CE, I wouldn't exactly say we're going in the right direction. I mean, we have Ignatius RSV-CE, Scepter RSV-CE, supposedly an Oxford RSV-CE, the Ignatius RSV-2CE, the RSV 2nd ed. NT; arrrghh!

I think there are now way-y-y-y too many editions of the RSV-CE, don't you think?


It is at my University's library for reference use, so I will go and look into this more in a few weeks after some of my exams are over with.



The NT only changed between the 1946 editon and the 1965 and the 1946 and the 1971, though, right? The 1952 edition just included the OT, and the 1959 edition just added the deuterocanonical books. There hopefully shouldn't be more than two variants of the NT to compare. I'll just have to check out that concordance you mentioned.

No, per my research, and this is confirmed by the reference work I cited, the RSV NT has no less than FOUR editions: the original 1946, another in 1952 (when OT was published), a 1959 corrected edition (based on input from users!), and the 1971 second edition. The RSV-CE was supposedly derived from the 1959 edition.


I'm assuming Luke 1:28 is properly Catholic in the RSVCE, so that shouldn't be a problem in these CE's.

I can only answer for the Ignatius RSV-CE: yes, Luke 1:28 reads "Hail, full of grace".

Is this fixed in the CE's?


Why is the "powers of death" rendering problematic compared to "gates of Hades" or, what you suggested, "gates of hell"? Is it simply not word for word?

"Gates of Hades" may be the literal, but the Church - and just about anyone who often quotes this verse - uses "gates of hell".
"Powers of death" is a bit of a stretch, no?

"Behold the man" is the more preferred way of rendering that passage, correct?

Absolutely!!! "Ecce homo!" There is some artwork with this Latin title; "Here is (look at) the man!" Yeah, right.


Do you mean John 7:53–8:11 and Mark 16:9–20, which were restored in the 1971 version, or are you referencing other passages?

No, these they restored under considerable pressure from some Protestants, even. But there are many in Luke's Gospel, as you'll see in that reference.

Finally, does anyone know the significance of "God" being changed to "the angels" in Psalm 8:5?

Hearken ye: the Psalms from the NAB 1970 edition (issued originally as the Confraternity ed. "Job-Sirach" volume of 1955) renders this as "the angels". BTW - this is ONE of the best translations of the Psalms!

Thanks

[mmortal03]

Douay Rheims: Challoner Edition:
Isaiah 7:14: "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: "Thou hast made him a little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hell"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
John 19:5: "Behold the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "***"
Exodus 15:13: "mercy"


Original 1965 RSVCE and Ignatius Bible First Edition:
(based on the 1965 RSVCE)
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "***"
Exodus 15:13: "steadfast love"
Archaic language spoken to God.
Full pronunciation marks on names.
Psalms: "double numbering" from 11 to 148.

Ignatius Bible RSV Second Catholic Edition:
(based on the 1965 RSVCE and Ignatius First Edition)
Isaiah 7:14: uses Septuagint "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: uses Septuagint "Yet you have made him little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hades", footnote "powers of death"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "donkey"
Exodus 15:13: "merciful love"
Only Archaic language in a few specific cases.
“semi” pronunciation marks on names.
Psalms: "double numbering" from 11 to 148.

Oxford Press/Scepter RSVCE Compact Edition (and possibly the new Reader's Edition, we will have to see once it is released):
(presumably based on the 1971 RSV and compared to the 1965 RSVCE?)
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
John 19:5: "Behold, the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh", no footnote
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "***"
Exodus 15:13: "steadfast love"
Archaic language spoken to God.
“semi” pronunciation marks on names.
Psalms: No "double numbering" from 11 to 148.

On all of these editions, Luke 1:28 is rendered "Hail, full of grace", and throughout the Holy Spirit is refered to with "whom" or "who" instead of "which".

[SFH]

[quote=jpy15026]

Originally Posted by SFH

. The RSV-CE published by Oxford press received an imprimatur from Cardinal Cushing of Boston (it does not contain the phrase "full of grace" and is based on the 1971 revision to the New Testament).

Originally Posted by SFH

My Scepter/Oxford Press does contain"full of grace"

Imprimatur:
Gordon Joseph
Archbishop of Saint Andrew and Edinburgh

Nihil Obstat
Thomas Hanlon S.T.L.,L.S.S. ,PH.L.

Foward by John Cardinal Heenan,Archbishop of Westminster

Your translation is probably the same as the Ignatius RSV-CE (first edition). It also has an imprimatur and nihil obstat from Rev. Gordon Joseph Grey and Rev. Thomas Hanlon.

The 1971 RSV New Testament (also published by Oxford Press) doesn't contain the phrase "full of grace" and it received an imprimatur from Cardinal Cushing.