It's Official: Hindus Did Worship in Fatima

[GWitherow]

After viewing the pictures and reading about the events all I can say is that what happened what totally pathetic, nauseating and indefensible. The Bishop and shrine rector have either lost their minds or hold completely unorthodox beliefs.

There is no way any clear thinking orthodox Catholic can look at those photos and think there is any room for a "non-judgmental understanding" or "maybe it was ok" mentality.

The Church in America is in a crisis today not because the laity have failed but because the bishops and priests have failed. I lament to see this isn't a purely American problem.

[DominvsVobiscvm]

It wouldn't bother me so much if these were simply Hindus who, sitting or kneeling in the pews, worshipped our Lord and Lady as a goddess. At least I would think, "Oh well, maybe this will bring them closer to the Truth."

But the fact that their incantations were loud and public, that bothers me.

I know that, in India, it's always been common, since the days of Saint Thomas, for Hindus to visit Christian shrines and pray at them. This is because Hindus believe that all the world's deities are but manifestations of a single god, or a single principle: Brahman. Others see all the god-images, Hindu and non-Hindu, as symbols of one or anothe aspect of the All (Brahman).

In any event, I agree that what happened should not have been allowed to. If Hindus want to worship privately at Fatima, that's one thing. They should keep their public ceremonies out.

[GrzeszDeL]

Originally Posted by DominvsVobiscvm

If Hindus want to worship privately at Fatima, that's one thing. They should keep their public ceremonies out.

Needless to say, I would agree. I would go a hair farther, however. Quite apart from whether the Hindus should keep their public puja out of the Fatima shrine (and they should), the shrine authorities (especially the shrine rector) should keep the puja out. That is to say, even if the Hindus do not have the decency to respect the sacred shrine, those in charge of the shrine should not be inviting them in and even participating in the desecration. As I have said elsewhere, there is a small consolation in the thought that this shrine is slated for destruction soon anyway, so at least the profaned altar will not remain for long.

[Paul W]

Originally Posted by GrzeszDeL

Come on, we have all seen the photos from this service. The rector can say that no profanations of the altar of the Holy God were committed, but we have seen the pictures. This is like the Groucho Marx line in A Night at the Opera: "who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?"

1) It was "Duck Soup," not "Night at the Opera."

2) It was Chico Marx who said the line, not Groucho.

3) Chico did not mention the number of eyes.

4) The line was spoken to Margaret Dumont, who was being deceived, because both Harpo and Chico were impersonating Groucho. Therefore, she should not have believed what she thought she saw with her own eyes!

In the same way, you should not believe what you think you saw in a photograph, but should listen to the Rector's clear explanation of what transpired.

(Both films are available on VHS, if you'd care to check. By the end of the year "Duck Soup" will be available on DVD.)

[DominvsVobiscvm]

This is both sad and disgusting... it reminds one of the kissing of the Koran picture... very troubling.

Dude, you're confusing apples with oranges.

In the Middle East, kissing a gift, any gift, is a gestue of gratitude to the giver, not of homage to the gift.

Context is everything. Even in out own culture, a kiss means different things in different contexts. It isn't the same, for example when you kiss your sister and when you kiss your wife. You clearly mean different things by it.

Unless you live in Mississippi . . .

[GrzeszDeL]

Originally Posted by Paul W

1) It was "Duck Soup," not "Night at the Opera."

2) It was Chico Marx who said the line, not Groucho.

3) Chico did not mention the number of eyes.

4) The line was spoken to Margaret Dumont, who was being deceived, because both Harpo and Chico were impersonating Groucho. Therefore, she should not have believed what she thought she saw with her own eyes!

Details, details...

In the same way, you should not believe what you think you saw in a photograph, but should listen to the Rector's clear explanation of what transpired.

Uh-huh...

[Friar David, O.Carm]

Originally Posted by Paul W

In the same way, you should not believe what you think you saw in a photograph, but should listen to the Rector's clear explanation of what transpired.

But there are those who wish to attack the Church and tear it down.

They will use everything at their disposal to do so.

[GrzeszDeL]

Originally Posted by ByzCath

But there are those who wish to attack the Church and tear it down.

They will use everything at their disposal to do so.

It is not obvious to me that those of us who draw the obvious conclusion from the photos provided do so because we wish to "attack" the Church or "tear it down." Indeed, I would submit that we say what we say precisely because we love the Church and do not wish to wish to see Her torn down.

[st julie]

Our Lady will beckon whomever she will to her Son. He knows the hearts of all. There may be a mystical reason that we will never know in our lifetime.

St Julie

[Mystagogy]

Interesting... I need some details.

How did they (Hindus) worship, whom did they worship?

Does praying equal worship? I mean may a non-Catholic worship God at a consecrated altar in other than prayer? Does worshiping God under a misunderstanding of His nature or his being reduce the value of the worship? (And if the answer is Yes or "It eliminates it." what's the ramifications for us little "s" saints who don't worship perfectly?)

I sense that the original post was to provoke discussion, but the discussion jumped to a higher level than was useful to me. Any clarification is appreciated.

[carol marie]

I agree that it's disgusting and I'm not even Catholic. I wonder how Mary feels when she looks down from heaven and sees all the Hindus worshiping at the alter, Hindus who REJECTED her dear Son? It's like a spit to her face. Disgusting.

[cestusdei]

It is hard to know exactly what happened over there. I don't mind Hindu's asking for Mary's prayers. Certainly anyone can visit the shrine. Dominus Iesus was written to address this kind of problem. I seriously doubt Rome is going to let Fatima become a pagan shrine.

[Antonio B]

[PHP][/PHP]

Originally Posted by metal1633

I have seen the pictures also and all I saw was an Indian praying at the Altar. If he was praying to Mary, whats the problem?

Excuse me, how does a Hindu pray to Mary?

Antonio

[Antonio B]

[PHP][/PHP]

Originally Posted by JNB

No one, and this is clearly stated in Canon law, and that means any Non Catholic, can pray at an concecrated altar. I know this is extreme to say, but I question the faithfulness and the intelligence of both the Bishop in charge of Fatmima(Thinkfully because of his age he will retire soon) and the shrine rector of Fatima. If I personally see non Catholics walking up to the altar of ANY parish to worship, I would stand in the way.

And you would be correct and I would do exactly the same thing. Over my dead body!

Antonio

[Antonio B]

[PHP][/PHP]

Originally Posted by bob

For one thing - we Catholics do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary, we honour her.

SO WHY SHOULD WE LET HINDUS WORSHIP HER LIKE A GODDESS?
It is against our beliefs and teachings!

For the same reason we do not let other Christians receive the Eucharist although they may desire it, THEIR BELIEF IS NOT THE SAME.

Ecumenism does not mean allowing others to interpret our religion in their own way. If they want to pray to the Blessed Virgin, fine! BUT teach them what we believe about her first.

They want to pray after this, fine! BUT NOT at the altar!

In agreement but no one has used the word "worship" to refer to what we do when we communicate with Mary. Prayer and worship are not exactly the same thing.

Antonio