Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Family Life
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old May 27, '04, 1:00 am
BryanW BryanW is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2004
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default Any Catholic Martial Artists?

I know your out there. I'm interested in hearing how you feel the Art has made you a better Catholic, or maybe you feel it doesn't.

I feel that the Martial Arts is mostly about the human virtues. A firm and habitual disposition to do good.

I also feel that the MA is one of the few things left in this secular society that recognizes that we are a composite of Body and Soul, the Physical and Spiritual.
__________________
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.
Prv 27:17
  #2  
Old May 27, '04, 1:34 am
Adam Adam is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5
Religion: Roman Catholic
Send a message via AIM to Adam Send a message via MSN to Adam
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanW
I know your out there. I'm interested in hearing how you feel the Art has made you a better Catholic, or maybe you feel it doesn't.

I feel that the Martial Arts is mostly about the human virtues. A firm and habitual disposition to do good.

I also feel that the MA is one of the few things left in this secular society that recognizes that we are a composite of Body and Soul, the Physical and Spiritual.
I used to be in Teakwood and it is a wonderful expereince. It teaches discipline such as obeying your elders and studying. I have no problems with Teakwood at all, sparring is the funnest part of Martial Arts.
__________________
Adam
MT1618
  #3  
Old May 27, '04, 6:20 am
funkyhorn funkyhorn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Posts: 139
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

I've studied several martial arts (Jujutsu, Aikido, Tae Kwon Do, Kickboxing) and have found it very rewarding in ways. If you learn for the right reasons, I think that anyone would find it rewarding. You develop traits such as discipline, composure, humility, confidence, etc. There are those who join up just to learn how to beat other people up...They *usually* drop out fairly quickly. The higher ranks usually hurt their ego enough that they don't want to come back.

The thing about martial arts that I think is somewhat decieving is that it can give you a false sense of confidence or control. The spiritual part of the martial arts is based off a Godless religion, so the focus is on you, not God. You start to believe that you have abilities apart from God's blessings and grace. I started doing martial arts long before I started practicing my faith. I still practice martial arts, but not as much and not with the false belief that I am in control. There's also the "chi" or "ki" aspect of martial arts too, for those who are actually taught these concepts. I'm aftraid that I don't find the practice of deveoping and exercising your "chi" a very Christian thing either.

Martial Arts, aside from the spiritual aspect, is a good thing to get into. And as long as you are strong in your faith and aren't liable to get caught up in the whole spiritual side of it, you'll be just fine.
  #4  
Old May 27, '04, 6:41 am
Shibboleth Shibboleth is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 1,669
Religion: Orthodox
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

Myamoto Musashi, a Samurai and arguably the greatest swordsman to exist, is one of my great interests. I have read his Book of Five Rings many times and use the teachings in the book on a daily basis.
__________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely fool proof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -- Douglas Adams
  #5  
Old May 27, '04, 2:54 pm
Adam D Adam D is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default digression

Pardon me for diverting the subject, but ...

Funkyhorn, what else do you have to say about the 'development of chi' in oriental mysticism? It has been a subject of fascination for myself and one of my best friends since high school. I'm afraid that for my friend it may have developed into an unheathy fascination. I don't quite know what to make of it as a Catholic, but I put some stock in the reports of monks are martial artists who claim to accomplish some incredible stuff through manipulation of chi. And acupunture is somehow related to chi, isn't it?

Yet, when it comes up on Catholic Answers live (at least the few times I've heard it addressed to Jimmy Akin) I hear it said, "there's no such thing as chi. It just don't exist" I can't dismiss it so easily. What do you think? Should one put stock in such things? And if so, what exactly do we attribute it to? Is it demonic? Or what?
  #6  
Old May 27, '04, 3:16 pm
yochumjy yochumjy is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 1,045
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanW
I know your out there. I'm interested in hearing how you feel the Art has made you a better Catholic, or maybe you feel it doesn't.

I feel that the Martial Arts is mostly about the human virtues. A firm and habitual disposition to do good.

I also feel that the MA is one of the few things left in this secular society that recognizes that we are a composite of Body and Soul, the Physical and Spiritual.
I've been practising Jujitsu for 5+ years now. I feel that I have had my eyes opened to how amazing the human body is and how God made us. I'm also finding little bits of gems now and again with how my system works and how people should or should not work together. For instance, in jujitsu, you don't want to use muscle, you want to use a person's own motion against them, ie don't force anyone to do anything, lead them slightly and let them (or the Holy Spirit) do all the work... This and a few other things have led me to some ponderings I've been planning on starting a thread with....maybe soon...

There is a spiritual aspect to the arts, but you must be carefull, some very good people/martial artists replace religion with their martial art. Granted many of them do help people in various ways, but there is no substitute for God...

I feel the MA are about knowledge of oneself, improving ourselves physically and mentally and of helping others. One thing for sure, the more I know, the more I realize how much I truly need God. All the balance in the world will not save my soul, but it is nice to know that I could be able to defend myself and my family physically.

John
  #7  
Old May 27, '04, 3:32 pm
wet-rat wet-rat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 244
Default Re: digression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam D
Pardon me for diverting the subject, but ...

Funkyhorn, what else do you have to say about the 'development of chi' in oriental mysticism? It has been a subject of fascination for myself and one of my best friends since high school. I'm afraid that for my friend it may have developed into an unheathy fascination. I don't quite know what to make of it as a Catholic, but I put some stock in the reports of monks are martial artists who claim to accomplish some incredible stuff through manipulation of chi. And acupunture is somehow related to chi, isn't it?

Yet, when it comes up on Catholic Answers live (at least the few times I've heard it addressed to Jimmy Akin) I hear it said, "there's no such thing as chi. It just don't exist" I can't dismiss it so easily. What do you think? Should one put stock in such things? And if so, what exactly do we attribute it to? Is it demonic? Or what?
Just because empirical results have been explained using the concept of chi, it does not follow that chi is the underlying cause of these effects. For example, acupuncture may have legitimate physiological effects. This does not prove the existence of chi. Chi may effectively be a mnemonic formula by which the acupuncturist learns certain techniques. The mnemonic is simply misinterpreted as equal to the reality.
  #8  
Old May 27, '04, 3:38 pm
yochumjy yochumjy is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 1,045
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: digression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam D
Funkyhorn, what else do you have to say about the 'development of chi' in oriental mysticism? It has been a subject of fascination for myself and one of my best friends since high school. I'm afraid that for my friend it may have developed into an unheathy fascination. I don't quite know what to make of it as a Catholic, but I put some stock in the reports of monks are martial artists who claim to accomplish some incredible stuff through manipulation of chi. And acupunture is somehow related to chi, isn't it?

Yet, when it comes up on Catholic Answers live (at least the few times I've heard it addressed to Jimmy Akin) I hear it said, "there's no such thing as chi. It just don't exist" I can't dismiss it so easily. What do you think? Should one put stock in such things? And if so, what exactly do we attribute it to? Is it demonic? Or what?
There is something to chi. Acupuncture, I believe, is more geared to physical points in the body that affect other points. I've never heard acupuncture as chi related, but I could just not have heard. Martial Artists do tend to relate everything to everything, though.

Something there exists, although I've always wondered if it had something to do with a sort of electric-type field around the body. I've been pondering physical/spiritual connections lately, though not as they apply to our own bodies specifically.

According to some, there are different levels of "fields" around your body that give off...hmmm...feelings?knowledge? ie Sometimes you can tell how a person feels, most of the time I think it's just physical nuances, but not always. Also, you can sometimes tell when a person is staring at you, those kind of intuition things are sort of applied, I believe, to chi. A lot of the arts try to apply this spiritual type energy to the physical things they do. The body that God gave us has some amazing abilities, to be sure. But we should never put ourselves and our own abilities before God. I guess I've never focused a lot on the spiritual aspect of MA, seems like there is a slippery path to beware of there. If your friend is dwelling on it too much, then he could easily get pulled into Budism or another religion that focuses heavily on the "ME" and opening yourself up to the outside forces that they say can "help" you. Nothing wrong with meditation, as long as it is applied properly, such as prayer to God; when you open yourself to the universe you are likely to not get God. I'd pray for your friend...I am...

John
  #9  
Old May 27, '04, 4:59 pm
Richard Lamb Richard Lamb is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 415
Religion: catholic
Send a message via ICQ to Richard Lamb Send a message via AIM to Richard Lamb Send a message via MSN to Richard Lamb Send a message via Yahoo to Richard Lamb
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

I have taken Tang So Do in the past and have gone back from time to time,.. I need to go back...I also intend to get my Daughters involved for self defense purposes.....They are alright so long as you do not get to invoved in the mistyc side of them...
__________________
In His Name;

Richard Lamb
  #10  
Old May 27, '04, 5:59 pm
Scott Waddell's Avatar
Scott Waddell Scott Waddell is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2,301
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

I studied Aikido. Our instructor wisely avoided talk about "Chi" and simply refered to our "centers", which is merely the balance point of our bodies (just under the navel). By using our centers we can do techniques against much larger opponents (although there is not really "opponents" per se in Aikido) with minimal amount of energy expense.

As others have noted, martial arts is fine as long as you avoid the spurious glitter of Eastern mysticism.

Scott

Last edited by Scott Waddell; May 27, '04 at 6:00 pm. Reason: grammer
  #11  
Old May 27, '04, 6:06 pm
Ken Ken is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 25, 2004
Posts: 1,696
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

Chi may very well be a natural phenomenon. There is no reason to think it has to be spiritual. We know much too little about life to draw such conclusions.
  #12  
Old May 27, '04, 6:28 pm
raggster raggster is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Posts: 5
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

I have been taking Arnis for 6 years now, and before that I formally dipped into Karate and Judo, and informally dipped into freestyle wrestling. All these martial arts have taught me the value of life and the importance of preserving it, even if it is the life of your own aggressor. Yes, sounds very familiar, doesn't it?

On the subject of "chi" - I read an interesting theory that proposed "chi" to be oxygen flow within the fasciae (the thin layer of lining surrounding our internal organs and muscles). Something about building up the fasciae to support internal organs and protect them from injury. Don't know if that helps.
  #13  
Old May 27, '04, 6:53 pm
The Barrister The Barrister is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 1,097
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

12 years of Tae Kwon Do, 3rd degree, certified AAU referee - but that was 20 years ago. I would seriously hurt myself if I attempted a flying side kick right now.... the spirit is willing but the flesh is not very flexible any more...

Luckily my teachers never got into the "fake mystical spiritualism" which so often accompanies martial arts training in America. For example, we were taught to focus our power as a purely mental and physical act, rather than being taught some mystical exercise to "summon our Chi."

That said, I wish I knew then what I know now about Catholic spiritualism - I could have been one baaaaaad monk. I did learn a lot about self-discipline and asceticism.

One of our assistant pastors at St. John Westminster (Fr. Leo Patalinghug) is an accomplished martial artist.
__________________
This is just my opinion. I am not a theologian or Canon lawyer.
For more opinions visit The Mighty Barrister - Catholic Commentary Online.
  #14  
Old May 27, '04, 8:01 pm
funkyhorn funkyhorn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Posts: 139
Default Re: digression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam D
Pardon me for diverting the subject, but ...

Funkyhorn, what else do you have to say about the 'development of chi' in oriental mysticism? It has been a subject of fascination for myself and one of my best friends since high school. I'm afraid that for my friend it may have developed into an unheathy fascination. I don't quite know what to make of it as a Catholic, but I put some stock in the reports of monks are martial artists who claim to accomplish some incredible stuff through manipulation of chi. And acupunture is somehow related to chi, isn't it?

Yet, when it comes up on Catholic Answers live (at least the few times I've heard it addressed to Jimmy Akin) I hear it said, "there's no such thing as chi. It just don't exist" I can't dismiss it so easily. What do you think? Should one put stock in such things? And if so, what exactly do we attribute it to? Is it demonic? Or what?
First, I'll divert you to another thread where I talk about this a little more. I can't really say either way about "chi." I know that I've seen some very amazing "tricks" where martial artists will claim to utilize chi..but thats all they are, is tricks. One example would be if you ever saw someone hold the tip of a long spear and press it to their neck and then someone else would whack the other end of it with something like a hammer hitting a nail into a piece of wood, but the spear doesn't puncture his neck. Chi? I doubt it. I know full well that if I (or anyone for that matter) took that spear, pulled it back, and jabbed it into the same spot on the guy's neck, it would go through.

I think that chi may be no more than being able to manipulate your body in ways that most others aren't trained to. I've seen/felt people using chi to make one hand hot and one hand cold...although there wasn't a HUGE difference in temperature, there was a difference. I did feel the guy's hands before and after.

Like I said in this other thread, I remember some lady being on EWTN talking about the healing powers of chi energy and about it being used in hospitals today as a new method of healing...and she was very against it.

I'm not sure what Jimmy Akin bases his statements about chi on, but a more accurate statement might be that it doesn't exist the way many people believe it exists. Chi IS something, but probably not what martial artists, monks, Taoists, believe it is. In any case, when you get right down to it, it really isn't that great. You can maybe do a few side show stunts with it, but I really don't think it is beneficial in a practical sense.

If your friend has developed an "unhealthy facination" with it, then it isn't a good thing. I think that the concept of chi puts too much (if not all) the emphasis on your own powers that you think you have rather than the blessings or grace that God has given you. People believe that THEY become powerful by having this chi energy and the consequences of this delusion are not good. I think that it very well could be the devil working through you. The devil definately has powers on earth to do these kinds of things.

Anyhow, in short, I don't think its worth anyone's time. There are several exemplary martial artists who don't believe in it and don't use it, so I don't see how it could benefit you in that sense. Besides, we have SO many better things to be doing with our time than trying to stimulate, cultivate, and develop chi...like study the Bible, or apologetics, or go cow tipping...
  #15  
Old May 27, '04, 8:25 pm
Monicathree Monicathree is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 423
Default Re: Any Catholic Martial Artists?

Hello,

I have studied Kung fu for 10 yrs. and am a practicing Catholic. My husband and I actually met training. We train the fourth internal style called Liu Ho Ba Fa, also Tibetan Lama, Hsiny-Yi, Ba-Gua and Chin-na. We have a very small group that we teach from our garage, we decided not to go the commercial route.
Anyway...
I actually came to my faith in 2002, but it is funny, because I truly believe that the martial arts prepared me for my faith. Without humility, forget it. That is the beauty of the true martial arts, the more you know, the less you talk and walk around with a puffed chest. And, actually, the more you know, the more you know you need constant practice. Similarly, the more you grow in your faith, I think, the more you know you must pray and always keep humble. As far as ego, my Sifu taught me that any man can be had any day. I guess that is why we must always practice to keep our skills sharp. As it is with a Catholic life, any body can fall to sin any day, no matter how "good" you think you are. So, then, we must also keep our "skills"(soul sharp) by constant prayer and humility. My husband always says, once you think you've got it...you are even farther away.

Also, being an internal artist myself we always hear about chi this and chi that...My Sifu, who is a Chinese Grandmaster, says...Chi is air.period. Chi-gung literally means air work. It is to practice breathing and relaxation..some people get into the wackadoo stuff, and somebody said exactly what it is, it is tricks. Gung-fu hard work..Chi-gung air work...it is for breathing and connectivity and to really to be able to be relaxed and not tense up when executing technique. But many are led astray.

Martial arts has been a blessing in my life...
You don't train so you can go looking for a fight
You train so you don't have to, but yet you know that God forbid if it came down to it you can defend yourself and others if you had to.

Peace be with you all brothers(I am assuming there are no sisters here, I am used to always being the only girl)
Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Family Life

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8479Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Weejee
5153CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4429Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: daughterstm
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3864SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3762Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: daughterstm
3332Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3288Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3225Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3116For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Weejee



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 7:17 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.