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  #1  
Old Jan 27, '06, 1:26 pm
Intrigued Latin Intrigued Latin is offline
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Question Baptism by Deacon

Dear Friends,

Last month I attended the (Latin Rite) Baptism of my niece. The entire Baptismal Ritual was done by a Deacon.

What has me wondering is, if a Deacon cannot confer the Holy Spirit during Mass, how is he able to perform a licit Baptism ?

Brad

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  #2  
Old Jan 27, '06, 1:35 pm
cameron_lansing cameron_lansing is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrigued Latin
Dear Friends,

Last month I attended the (Latin Rite) Baptism of my niece. The entire Baptismal Ritual was done by a Deacon.

What has me wondering is, if a Deacon cannot confer the Holy Spirit during Mass, how is he able to perform a licit Baptism ?

Brad

Brad,

Licit just means according to law or lawful.

The code of canon law gave him the legal authority to do so with the pastor's permission.

Canon 861 "§1. The ordinary minister of baptism is a bishop, presbyter or deacon, with due regard for the prescription of can. 530, 1º."

All canon 530 1º does is to especially entrust baptism to the pastor. Unlike the former code though, it is not reserved to the pastor. So with the permission of the pastor, a deacon or other priest can lawfully baptize.

The Rite of Baptism n. 10 reiterates canon 861 §1.

However, the bishop can reserve the baptism of those who have completed 14 years to himself (canon 862). This is a connected but separate issue though.
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  #3  
Old Jan 27, '06, 3:53 pm
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Brendan Brendan is online now
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Check out what happened in Acts 8: 14-17

Phillip (who is a deacon acts 6) Baptized the Samaritan. And then sent him to the Peter and John (Bishops) to recieve Confirmation.

Note that Peter and John didn't re-baptize the Samaritan, but rather laid hands on him.

Phillip also preached to, and Baptized the Ethopian eunuch




And here is St. Isidore of Seville,

: "To the deacons it belongs to assist the priests and to minister [ministrare] in all that is done in the Sacraments of Christ, in baptism, with the Holy Chrism, to maintain the paten and chalice, to bring the oblation to the altar and to arrange them, to lay the table of the Lord and to drape it, to carry the cross, to proclaim the Gospel and Epistle, for as the charge is given to lectors to declaim the Old Testament, so it is given to deacons to proclaim the New.

To him also pertains the office of prayers (Liturgy of the Hours) and the recital of the names. It is he who gives warning to open our ears to the Lord, it is he who exhorts with his cry, it is he also who announces peace."


Trent in it's Canon's on Baptism, declared that even heretics could validily Baptize, as long as they used the correct matter (water) and form (Trinitarian)

Quote:
Canon 4. If anyone says that the baptism which is given by heretics in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, with the intention of doing what the Church does, is not true baptism,[12] let him be anathema.


So the Baptism done by a deacon is certainly Valid, meaning that the Sacrament is truely imparted.

And, as Deacon Cameron kindly pointed out, the Deacon is a lawful minister of the Sacrament, the Baptism is both licit and valid.
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  #4  
Old Jan 27, '06, 4:02 pm
YADA YADA is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

The ordinary minister of baptism is the bishop or priest then deacon. However, in cases of extreme emergency, any baptized person may perform a 'licit' baptism. As long as it is proper in form (Water, and the words I baptize you in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...)

There is an old saying a priest told me regarding Deacons. They can "match 'em, spash 'em and dispatch 'em" I guess it was his pnemonic device.

A deacon can witness a catholic wedding ceremony (not a Nuptial Mass which requires a priest), baptism and funeral service (not a Funeral Mass)
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  #5  
Old Jan 27, '06, 6:07 pm
gelsbern gelsbern is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Also keep in mind that any baptism even by protestants using the trinitarian formula (Baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) is also a valid baptism.
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  #6  
Old Jan 27, '06, 6:28 pm
cameron_lansing cameron_lansing is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Quote:
Originally Posted by YADA
The ordinary minister of baptism is the bishop or priest then deacon. However, in cases of extreme emergency, any baptized person may perform a 'licit' baptism.)
If by extreme emergency, you mean danger of death, anyone with the right intention may confer baptism.

See canon 862 §2 or No. 1256 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#chpt1).

A right intention is required but not that the minister of the sacrament be baptized.
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  #7  
Old Jan 29, '06, 3:45 am
rkberlin rkberlin is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

What's a Nuptial Wedding? My dh and I got married before a Deacon ( outside of Mass, since he was then Mormon ) and both my girls got baptised by the same deacon. Is my marriage invalid? Huh?
Maybe I'm just not understanding something right here, but I also always thought I could baptise- in case of emergency only, though.
God bless


Quote:
Originally Posted by YADA
The ordinary minister of baptism is the bishop or priest then deacon. However, in cases of extreme emergency, any baptized person may perform a 'licit' baptism. As long as it is proper in form (Water, and the words I baptize you in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...)

There is an old saying a priest told me regarding Deacons. They can "match 'em, spash 'em and dispatch 'em" I guess it was his pnemonic device.

A deacon can witness a catholic wedding ceremony (not a Nuptial Mass which requires a priest), baptism and funeral service (not a Funeral Mass)
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  #8  
Old Jan 29, '06, 4:05 am
Catholic Heart Catholic Heart is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkberlin
What's a Nuptial Wedding? My dh and I got married before a Deacon ( outside of Mass, since he was then Mormon ) and both my girls got baptised by the same deacon. Is my marriage invalid? Huh?
Maybe I'm just not understanding something right here, but I also always thought I could baptise- in case of emergency only, though.
God bless
Don't worry...Your marriage is certainly valid.....
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  #9  
Old Jan 29, '06, 7:07 am
joshua_b joshua_b is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkberlin
What's a Nuptial Wedding? My dh and I got married before a Deacon ( outside of Mass, since he was then Mormon ) and both my girls got baptised by the same deacon. Is my marriage invalid? Huh?
Maybe I'm just not understanding something right here, but I also always thought I could baptise- in case of emergency only, though.
God bless
What we have in your case is the matter of something being "valid" (did it actually happen ?) versus "licit" (did it comply with the norms and regulations of the church ?)

ANY baptism performed by ANYONE who intends to baptize another, so long as they use water and do so "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" is valid (the baptism actually happens and is real). The norms of the Church state that ordinarilly a priest or deacon is to effect the sacrament, so if you baptize an infant just because you dont want to attend pre-baptism classes at the local parish, it would certainly be valid, but since it doesn't conform to the norms it would be "illicit" but would not change the fact that it validly happened. When we speak of a nuptual wedding ceremony, we speak of a wedding ceremony outside of the context of an actual Mass. A deacon can perform a wedding ceremony if it is outside of Mass, but only a priest can consecrate the bread and wine, so a nuptual ceremony by a deacon would be valid and licit, but a wedding mass would be invalid if performed by a deacon, because the consecration would never have happened since a deacon lacks the physical ability to do so. Now whether or not a wedding mass performed by a deacon would render a valid marriage is beyond my knowledge.
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  #10  
Old Jan 29, '06, 7:10 am
joshua_b joshua_b is offline
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Default Re: Baptism by Deacon

Rest assured though, that as long as all of the other criteria were met, being married before a Deacon in a Nuptual Wedding Ceremony (outside of an actual Mass) is both valid and licit in the Roman rite, and you have nothing to worry about.
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