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  #1  
Old Feb 19, '06, 6:11 am
Marilena Marilena is offline
 
Join Date: October 16, 2005
Posts: 2,386
Religion: Catholic
Default What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Okay, so I don't know where to post this. Please forgive me.

I want to know if anyone knows the difference between the Tridentene Latin Mass, and the approved Latin Mass. Is the
approved Latin Mass a Tridentene one? Or, is the Tridentene
only done by SSPX members? Are noth Masses the same?
What is the difference? I don't want this post to get contentious.
I only want a simple answer to my question. No, Iam not an
SSPX.
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  #2  
Old Feb 19, '06, 6:52 am
USMC USMC is offline
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Join Date: July 1, 2005
Posts: 533
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilena
Okay, so I don't know where to post this. Please forgive me.

I want to know if anyone knows the difference between the Tridentene Latin Mass, and the approved Latin Mass. Is the
approved Latin Mass a Tridentene one? Or, is the Tridentene
only done by SSPX members? Are noth Masses the same?
What is the difference? I don't want this post to get contentious.
I only want a simple answer to my question. No, Iam not an
SSPX.
The Tridentine Latin Mass and the approved Latin Mass are the same thing. No difference.

The "approved Latin Mass" is the Trinentine Latin Mass that has been "approved" by the local Bishop. Since the impression was given for years that the TLM was forbidden, only the local Bishop was able to make this exception to the rule, and allow the Latin Mass to be celebrated. The "exception" is called an "indult".

An approved Latin Mass is a Traditional Latin Mass that is "approved" by the local Biship, and is known as an "indult" Mass.

Why is an indult needed?

In the year 1969, the impression was given that the Tridentine Latin Mass had been abrogated (done away with), and replaced by the Novus Ordo Mass. Traditional Catholics argued for years that not only was the Old Mass not abrogated when the new Mass was issued, but that not even the Pope had the authority to do so, since the Old MAss was cannonized "in perpetuity" by Pope Pius V.

In 1988 John Paul II commissioned 9 Cardinals to look into whether or not the Old Mass had been abrogated (one of those Cardinals was Cardinal Ratzinger). The 9 Cardinals agreed unanimously that the Old Mass was not abrogated (which was contrary to the general impression given), and 8 of them agreed that any priest could say it without special permission.

For years Rome would admit this privately (to the SSPX for example), but only recently has it began to admit it publically. If you read the transcript of Cardinal Ratzinger's interview with Raymond Arroyo ofEWTN from a few years ago, the Cardinal admits that the Old Mass was not abrogated.

In another recent interview, Cardinal Hoyos, who, along with the Pope, is currently negotioting an agreement with the SSPX (soon to be announced), also admitted that the Old Mass was never abrogated. Rome is finally admitting what the Traditionalists have been saying for years.

But to answer you question: The TLM is the same thing as the approved Latin Mass. There is no difference. Somce TLM's are said with the approval of the local Bishop - with an "indult" - and some are not. That is the only difference.
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  #3  
Old Feb 19, '06, 7:00 am
Marilena Marilena is offline
 
Join Date: October 16, 2005
Posts: 2,386
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC
The Tridentine Latin Mass and the approved Latin Mass are the same thing. No difference.

The "approved Latin Mass" is the Trinentine Latin Mass that has been "approved" by the local Bishop. Since the impression was given for years that the TLM was forbidden, only the local Bishop was able to make this exception to the rule, and allow the Latin Mass to be celebrated. The "exception" is called an "indult".

An approved Latin Mass is a Traditional Latin Mass that is "approved" by the local Biship, and is known as an "indult" Mass.

Why is an indult needed?

In the year 1969, the impression was given that the Tridentine Latin Mass had been abrogated (done away with), and replaced by the Novus Ordo Mass. Traditional Catholics argued for years that not only was the Old Mass not abrogated when the new Mass was issued, but that not even the Pope had the authority to do so, since the Old MAss was cannonized "in perpetuity" by Pope Pius V.

In 1988 John Paul II commissioned 9 Cardinals to look into whether or not the Old Mass had been abrogated (one of those Cardinals was Cardinal Ratzinger). The 9 Cardinals agreed unanimously that the Old Mass was not abrogated (which was contrary to the general impression given), and 8 of them agreed that any priest could say it without special permission.

For years Rome would admit this privately (to the SSPX for example), but only recently has it began to admit it publically. If you read the transcript of Cardinal Ratzinger's interview with Raymond Arroyo ofEWTN from a few years ago, the Cardinal admits that the Old Mass was not abrogated.

In another recent interview, Cardinal Hoyos, who, along with the Pope, is currently negotioting an agreement with the SSPX (soon to be announced), also admitted that the Old Mass was never abrogated. Rome is finally admitting what the Traditionalists have been saying for years.

But to answer you question: The TLM is the same thing as the approved Latin Mass. There is no difference. Somce TLM's are said with the approval of the local Bishop - with an "indult" - and some are not. That is the only difference.

That is a very excellent answer, and you've answered all my questions! Thank you very much!

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  #4  
Old Feb 19, '06, 10:08 am
JimG JimG is offline
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Join Date: May 23, 2004
Posts: 23,177
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

One more point: The current Novus Ordo Mass can also be said in Latin by any priest. As such, you could also call the Novus Ordo an "approved Latin Mass."
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  #5  
Old Feb 19, '06, 8:53 pm
Rand Al'Thor Rand Al'Thor is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2005
Posts: 2,326
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC
Rome is finally admitting what the Traditionalists have been saying for years.
Peace be with you!

Rome hasn't "admitted" what the traditionalists have been saying. Rome never said the TLM was abrogated, so there was never anything for them to admit. Like you said, people were under the impression of that; Rome didn't say it was.

An important note, Marilena: if one attends an SSPX Mass, it is a mortal sin because they are in schism with Rome.

In Christ,
Rand
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  #6  
Old Feb 19, '06, 10:46 pm
viktor aleksndr viktor aleksndr is offline
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Join Date: May 8, 2005
Posts: 596
Religion: catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Tridentine Mass and Latin Mass is not the same in some matter.
Tridentine Mass is in Latin and Novus Ordo Mass can also be in Latin.

Maybe you can ask the difference between the Tridentine Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass.
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  #7  
Old Feb 20, '06, 3:44 am
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2005
Posts: 3,858
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: What is the difference between the Tridentene Mass and the Approved Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilena
Okay, so I don't know where to post this. Please forgive me.

I want to know if anyone knows the difference between the Tridentene Latin Mass, and the approved Latin Mass. Is the
approved Latin Mass a Tridentene one? Or, is the Tridentene
only done by SSPX members? Are noth Masses the same?
What is the difference? I don't want this post to get contentious.
I only want a simple answer to my question. No, Iam not an
SSPX.
The Tridentine or more accurately the Traditional Latin Mass is a mass that was in existance basically from the council of Trent in the 1500's. until around 1970. It was in existance long before that but for the sake of argument we'll use the Council of Trent date. It was the normative rite of the Roman Church . After Vatican II the Novus Ordo or the Pauline Mass was developed and was instituted around 1970 or so.

The Traditional Latin Mass IS done mostly in Latin, with the homily and sometimes another reading done in the vernacular. Those celebrating the Traditional Mass for a congregation need the permission of the local Bishop, under the terms of the indult granted by His Holiness Pope John Paull II of Blessed Memory. if it is celebrated privately permision is not required.

The Pauline Mass CAN be done completely in Latin with the homily, various prefaces the general intercessions done in the vernacular, but it is NORMALLY done completely in the vernacular. It is the normative rite of the Roman Church.

Both types of Masses are Approved, and can be celebrated by those legally entitled to preside over them, in accordance with all applicable rules, IE: the Indult for the Traditional Mass..

The SSPX is a society that is currently in schism with the Church. I would not advise going to their Masses although some people claim it is all right to do so. The SSPX has a curious mentality in that they claim to accept the authority of the Pope, but do not by and large accept the reforms of the Vatican II Council. I'm not really sure just how they justify that particular position.
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