View Single Post
  #17  
Old Oct 29, '06, 12:12 am
MikeDunphy's Avatar
MikeDunphy MikeDunphy is offline
Regular Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2005
Posts: 705
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: About “pro multis”

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06 View Post
Despite the errors and evasions of the web page referenced above, if one reads the whole thing carefully, one will see:
(1) At the Last Supper, our Lord said that He was shedding His blood "for many", not "for all".
(2) The new Mass in its normative Latin form records that our Lord said He was shedding His Blood "for many", not "for all".
(3) The translators, nevertheless, claim that our Lord said He was shedding His blood "for all", not "for many".

The rest of the commentary on the page is erroneous, irrelevant, or absurd. Notice the claim that the Qumram community adopted the word "many" as a label ("almost a name") for their own small group. How is this an argument in favor of "many" meaning everyone in the world? If anything, using the word "many" to signify a very small group of people is an argument against using that same word to signify every single human being. A little group of people is not all people. Especially this little group. Google "Qumram" and read the first match. "The Qumram community has left a scroll which expresses the bitterest hatred of all that is not Jewish..." - I don't think they were identifying with the world at large.

The good news that Christ offers salvation to the whole world is worth repeating many times, but it doesn't address the question of what Christ actually said when bread and wine were first consecrated. Why couldn't He offer His sacrifice especially for those blessed souls who do enter into the new covenant? At the Last Supper our Lord said "I do not pray for the world, but for the ones you have given me".

The 1970 claim that the same "word" in Aramaic means both pro multis and pro omnibus is simply wrong, and the first 2004 article admits it -- in soft, fuzzy terms that may leave some with the impression that this is all a matter of nuance.

The second 2004 article admits that the "vast majority" of the "ancient Eucharistic Prayer texts" use "for many". It points out that a few omit these words, but neglects to mention that none of them substitute in "for all".

I do have a bit more I could write, but I'll stop here with a note of agreement on one point. Fr. McNamara wrote:
Quote:
In no way is the doctrine of the 'Roman Catechism' to be held outdated.
The Roman Catechism teaches that Jesus deliberately did say "for many" and deliberately did not say "for all". If this doctrine is in no way to be held outdated, why is there any argument? Just fix the translation. I truly thank God that the Holy Father is going to make sure it does get fixed.
__________________
Veni, veni Emmanuel; Captivum solve Israel,
Qui gemit in exilio, Privatus Dei Filio.

Last edited by Marian Carroll; Oct 29, '06 at 7:07 pm. Reason: AMENDED TITLE