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  #76  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:11 am
block block is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by pathia View Post
Under their watch I tried to commit suicide four times. The first time I tried to hang myself at the age of eight. By the time I was 17, half of the kids I knew from the therapy group I was in were dead by suicide.

They teach you the color pink is evil, and shouldn't be touched. They have your parents punish you for playing with the wrong toys, or playing with the wrong gendered kids. They encourage the mocking and teasing at school, because it 'toughens' kids up. They forced me to play rough and tumble sports, the forced me to do so many things. I had to wear a rubber band on my wrist and if I did anything 'effeminate' I was supposed to snap myself with it, if I didn't do it, my parents were asked to do it for me.

I had to listen to these weird tapes at night with a monotone voice talking about how great it was to be a man and how great it would be to have sex with my wife (I was only like 15 with that). It was absurd and abusive and disgustingly disturbing.
Wow, my eyes and mouth were both gaped open when I read this.
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  #77  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:13 am
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Teen4Christ Teen4Christ is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by block View Post
You don't think homosexuality is a choice? I don't understand this statement. I do agree that in very very rare cases a person can be born with this disease, but I would say that a good majority of homosexuals were not born that way, and somewhere down the line allowed themselves to become brainwashed. Homosexuality is a choice, and it's an evil choice. It is blind lust that serves no purpose other than fulfilling selfish pleasure.




I disagree, most gays are not brainwashed, the only gays that are are those who choose to deny their feelings and ex-gays
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  #78  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:14 am
ladybri77 ladybri77 is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by block View Post
You don't think homosexuality is a choice? I don't understand this statement. I do agree that in very very rare cases a person can be born with this disease, but I would say that a good majority of homosexuals were not born that way, and somewhere down the line allowed themselves to become brainwashed. Homosexuality is a choice, and it's an evil choice. It is blind lust that serves no purpose other than fulfilling selfish pleasure.
The feelings of homosexuality are not a choice, it's what you do with them that are. I believe they come from deep repressed anger, bitterness, or pain and how we react to that. Also, any unmet needs we might have, trying to meet them in our own way, not God's way. The scripture says that unresolved bitterness causes all sorts of problems. I don't believe it is a disease or that you are born with it. Any cross God can use for His Glory to be performed in you.
  #79  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:18 am
hvadney hvadney is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

[quote=ladybri77;4698898]In response to hvadney -

Well, according to Holy Scripture and Catholic teaching, my own experience, the experience of others, spiritual books on healing and homosexuality, and the Holy Spirit within me, I can say that it's a sin to act out homosexually. It's not a sin to have the feelings.

Another thing, when you act on it, it only strengthens the desires, and makes that empty place in your heart even bigger. Ask God to fill the hole in your heart.QUOTE]

Well, there are a lot of books written but very few nowadays by authorities. We should avoid making blanket statements, in general, and when citing an authority share the authority as in any good credible piece of writing.

I am pretty well read in Holy Scripture and would be hard-put to cite any outright statement that condemns homosexuality and those that are interpreted by some as lending support for such condemnation are less than convincing on closer scrutiny.

Please also, unless you have the faculties, do not make a pronouncement of determination of sin. Sin depends an a great number of important considerations before it is sin. It may be objectionable to you personally but whether the individual is sinning is another question.

You impugn your credibility also when you say that the feelings involved are not sinful (assuming the requisites for sinning are met) so one has to assume that either you distinguish between sin of the feelings and sin of physical acts (sins of commission). From what I understand you feel that feelings are not sinful if they imply a sinful act? Are the "feelings" of homosexuality not sinful but other feelings sinful (such as envy, hate, covetousness, etc.)? I would be interested in the bases upon which you found your distinctions.

While not "homosexual" myself, I do know many homosexuals who are pretty well-balanced and would put some agressively Christian people to shame in terms of caritas, generosity, faith, etc. I know of some homosexuals who are in long-term relationships that any Christian would be proud of and many Catholic divorcees should have endeavored to have emulated. I know some brilliant and saintly religious who are homosexual. Are all of these to be lumped together and prime candidates for prime property in Gehenna?

I find some of the observations to be misguided in that I perceive some contributors are bundling "homosexuality" with "promiscuity" as many bundle homosexuality with paedophilia. All misapprehensions. Not to start a flash fire here nor to introduce a new topic, but were you aware that the majority of paedophiles are heterosexual and most child abuse occurs at the hands of heterosexuals?

Finally, before recommending your curriculum of choice you should inform yourself of the qualifications and experience of your conversation partner. You may be chagrined (at least)

Peace and blessings!
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  #80  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:22 am
LindaSK LindaSK is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

This is my first posting. I am a convert who came into the Church at Easter Vigil in 2007. I had several bad and abusive marriages. With the help of some wonderful and extremely patient priests, and many continuing prayers, I am still working on putting the past where it belongs. Because of the temperament of some of the individuals involved, I know I will never file for annulment, so, I will never marry again. I have chosen a celibate life. When I consider the alternatives, this decision has really brought me a sense of peace. The priests who have helped me have suggested that I allow people I feel I can trust (which is very difficult for me) to be a support system, that I pray for myself (easier to pray for others), and that I get a legitimate spiritual director (be cautious - just because they have the title doesn't mean they should). With God, we are stronger than we think we are. With God, all things are possible. This comes from a reliable source. We all face our demons in our own ways, some healthier than others. We are all called to discernment. My most constructive advice is that you pray and ask God for discernment. Then, find times to just be still and quiet, and let God answer. Remember, God doesn't wear a watch! Talk to a pastor you have come to trust. Sometimes, if he is protective of his privacy, he will be just as protective of the privacy of those who come to him for guidance. You'll know soon enough if you've gone to the right person for you. You do want someone who cares enough to tell you the things you need to hear even if it's not what you want to hear. Be persistent if the first person you go to doesn't feel 'right' for you to talk to. I wish I'd been given that advice many years ago. It's amazing how deep a hole you can dig all by yourself! The deeper the hole, the longer it can take to climb out.

God loves you.
God bless.
  #81  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:32 am
ladybri77 ladybri77 is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

[quote=hvadney;4699047]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybri77 View Post
In response to hvadney -

Peace and blessings!
Holy scripture and Catholic teaching both announce homosexuality (acting out) as a sin (Romans) - those are my resources...

If you receive Christ into your heart, and the Holy Spirit dwells within you, He will reveal His truth to you as He revealed His truth to me through Scripture. You could argue with Catholic doctrine as it also believes the same thing about homosexuality.

Feelings of envy, greed, perversion are not healthy, one would have to look inside their heart to see the cause of these and bring it to the Lord, but it is what you do about it in the end that truly matters.
  #82  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:38 am
Angels Unaware Angels Unaware is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

Could we please distinguish between garden-variety promiscuity/homosexuality which is clearly a moral issue and cases that are not as clear-cut, and that require compassion rather than judgment?

Pathia has stated that she was born with ambiguous genitalia and ambiguous chromosomes. She is intersexed. It is a real condition that is not her fault and it is not homosexuality. Her condition is in no way sinful. In addition to the burden of being born this way, she was psychologically terrorized and abused from the age of 8.

It is unthinkable to me that anyone could offer this human being anything except compassion, and could pronounce themselves anything except humble before the unknown when presented with the reality of her life.

Clearly this is a very complex issue, and we don't know where moral behavior intersects with neurological, biological, and hormonal differences that cannot possibly be sources of blame for the people who suffer from these conditions.
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  #83  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:48 am
StAnastasia StAnastasia is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

Quote:
Originally Posted by block View Post
You don't think homosexuality is a choice? I don't understand this statement. I do agree that in very very rare cases a person can be born with this disease, but I would say that a good majority of homosexuals were not born that way, and somewhere down the line allowed themselves to become brainwashed. Homosexuality is a choice, and it's an evil choice. It is blind lust that serves no purpose other than fulfilling selfish pleasure.
I would have to meet such persons. My gay friends knew they were gay from puberty, just as I knew I was heterosexual. So technically, yes -- I was not heterosexual from birth, nor were they homosexual. It's the hormones!
  #84  
Old Jan 21, '09, 11:55 am
ladybri77 ladybri77 is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels Unaware View Post
Could we please distinguish between garden-variety promiscuity/homosexuality which is clearly a moral issue and cases that are not as clear-cut, and that require compassion rather than judgment?

Pathia has stated that she was born with ambiguous genitalia and ambiguous chromosomes. She is intersexed. It is a real condition that is not her fault and it is not homosexuality. Her condition is in no way sinful. In addition to the burden of being born this way, she was psychologically terrorized and abused from the age of 8.

It is unthinkable to me that anyone could offer this human being anything except compassion, and could pronounce themselves anything except humble before the unknown when presented with the reality of her life.

Clearly this is a very complex issue, and we don't know where moral behavior intersects with neurological, biological, and hormonal differences that cannot possibly be sources of blame for the people who suffer from these conditions.
Clearly, her case is very much biological. You're right, neurological, biological, and hormonal differences do intersect and play a role in certain things. If you look at siblings, one person has a very sensitive nature, the other one is just the opposite. The sensitive one would probably react in a greater way to external stimuli and probably need a lot more show of love and affection than the not so sensitive child. Any mother would say, oh ya, Petey needs to be held, cuddled, and kissed more than Steve. So, he would react stronger to negative external stimula such as coldness, absenteeism, withholding of love, etc in a more profound way, which may make him believe he is unlovable on some level. Especially if this boy was taunted by his peers for his sensitivism. It could cause him to withdraw from his peers whom he very much needs in his male development. This may make him seek out male attention in a more dramatic way for affirmation of his manhood as he ages, eventually sexualizing it.

You don't have to believe me on this, there is plenty of information written on the subject and psychological case studies as to how this actually can and does occur.
  #85  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:25 pm
StAnastasia StAnastasia is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by hvadney View Post
Well, there are a lot of books written but very few nowadays by authorities. ....... I am pretty well read in Holy Scripture and would be hard-put to cite any outright statement that condemns homosexuality and those that are interpreted by some as lending support for such condemnation are less than convincing on closer scrutiny.
"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: "Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them."

From <http://whosoever.org/index.shtml>
  #86  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:35 pm
ladybri77 ladybri77 is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by StAnastasia View Post
"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: "Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them."

From <http://whosoever.org/index.shtml>
Do you mean lesbian and gay Christians who are celebate or those whom act out? God loves us all the same. I condemn the [i]behavior[i] as sinful, not God's creation.
  #87  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:43 pm
StAnastasia StAnastasia is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by ladybri77 View Post
Do you mean lesbian and gay Christians who are celebate or those whom act out? God loves us all the same. I condemn the [i]behavior[i] as sinful, not God's creation.
Anyone who is unmarried is by definition celibate, as "celibate" means "unmarried."
  #88  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:43 pm
hvadney hvadney is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by StAnastasia View Post
"To be a gay or lesbian Christian these days, you have to have a bulletproof faith. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu noted in his endorsement of the book: "Gay and lesbian Christians are constantly demoralized and told they are not children of God. Bulletproof Faith reassures gays and lesbians that God loves them just as they were created and teaches them how to stand strong, with compassion and gentleness, against those who condemn them."

From <http://whosoever.org/index.shtml>
Thank you very much for the quotation from Rev Tutu's book. It seems that the eminent cleric and Nobel Prize laureate has a soft spot for gays and lesbians. Bless him. He makes good sense and I would humbly defer to his wisdom and let God make the decision ... I'd rather err in favor of charity, if err I must.
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  #89  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:44 pm
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by dumbseeker View Post
I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?
Yes.

The Church teaches certain actions are always wrong.

I suggest the following links:

CCC

Veritatis splendor

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
  #90  
Old Jan 21, '09, 12:47 pm
StAnastasia StAnastasia is offline
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Default Re: What should a homosexual person do

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Originally Posted by hvadney View Post
Thank you very much for the quotation from Rev Tutu's book. It seems that the eminent cleric and Nobel Prize laureate has a soft spot for gays and lesbians. Bless him. He makes good sense and I would humbly defer to his wisdom and let God make the decision ... I'd rather err in favor of charity, if err I must.
I'm all in favor of leaving it to be between God and the gay and lesbian people God created. Our Catholic parish has not a few such couples..
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