Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Philosophy
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #226  
Old Jun 1, '10, 4:54 pm
Leela Leela is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2,905
Religion: none
Default Re: Is science grounded on faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalo View Post
Only if they are void of any a priori bias.
Well, no, that is not how it works at all. How does one enter into any sort of inquiry with no prior beliefs whatsoever? Call it bias if you want, but the fact is that questions can only ever be asked based on premises, but those premises can also be questioned. Everything can be questioned--just not all at once.
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old Jun 1, '10, 7:01 pm
buffalo's Avatar
buffalo buffalo is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: June 7, 2004
Posts: 29,010
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is science grounded on faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leela View Post
Well, no, that is not how it works at all. How does one enter into any sort of inquiry with no prior beliefs whatsoever? Call it bias if you want, but the fact is that questions can only ever be asked based on premises, but those premises can also be questioned. Everything can be questioned--just not all at once.
Thanks!

Right - a history is presumed.

There are questions man cannot answer without information from outside our frame.So we can flip a coin and be happy.
__________________
IDvolution - God "breathed" the super language of DNA into the "kinds" in the creative act. Buffalo

"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is a thought of God."

“Science presupposes the trustworthy, intelligent structure of matter, the ‘design’ of creation.”

"A man of conscience, is one who never acquires tolerance, well- being, success, public standing, and approval on the part of prevailing opinion, at the expense of truth."
Pope Benedict XVI

Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old Jun 2, '10, 12:03 am
Geremia Geremia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 24, 2008
Posts: 1,743
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default St. Augustine seems to think it is.

In Summa Theologica, I, q. 32, a. 1 ad 2, St. Thomas Aquinas quotes St. Augustine, who says that:
Quote:
per fidem venitur ad cognitionem, et non e converso.
[by faith we arrive at knowledge, and not conversely.]
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old Jun 2, '10, 2:49 pm
donsnow's Avatar
donsnow donsnow is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: October 18, 2009
Posts: 9,619
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: St. Augustine seems to think it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geremia View Post
In Summa Theologica, I, q. 32, a. 1 ad 2, St. Thomas Aquinas quotes St. Augustine, who says that:
I've experienced that in my pilgrimage. I reach a certain intangible plateau by faith, and see vistas, ie knowledge, that I never saw before.
__________________
God is love - St. John

Prayer is the purest form of human love - Don D. Snow

We're all God's creatures...and some humans can be His children. - Don D. Snow

Even the ignorant, may have wisdom. Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old Aug 7, '10, 7:20 pm
Geremia Geremia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 24, 2008
Posts: 1,743
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default Re: Is science grounded on faith?

This is definitely related to the regress problem.
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old Apr 13, '11, 11:01 am
Geremia Geremia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 24, 2008
Posts: 1,743
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default Re: Please help me disprove my fideist thinking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geremia View Post
I loved the Vatican Council's document that God's existence can be known through natural reason, but what is natural reason? Our human nature is pretty fallen, but sometimes I think it hasn't fallen so badly that we no longer have any sort of human reason to work independently of God's grace, but even if it has, God is infinitely merciful and can still turn that bad into good only if we are allowed to use faith as a means to knowledge, right?
St. Thomas Aquinas says that unbelief does not destroy natural reason in unbelievers, so our human nature can never be so fallen as to be unable to have enough natural reason to prove God's existence (Summa Theologić: Whether every act of an unbeliever is sin?, ad 3):
Quote:
Unbelief does not so wholly destroy natural reason in unbelievers, but that some knowledge of the truth remains in them
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old Apr 14, '11, 7:43 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
Forum Elder
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 20,600
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Please help me disprove my fideist thinking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geremia View Post

Originally Posted by Geremia
I loved the Vatican Council's document that God's existence can be known through natural reason, but what is natural reason? Our human nature is pretty fallen, but sometimes I think it hasn't fallen so badly that we no longer have any sort of human reason to work independently of God's grace, but even if it has, God is infinitely merciful and can still turn that bad into good only if we are allowed to use faith as a means to knowledge, right?


St. Thomas Aquinas says that unbelief does not destroy natural reason in unbelievers, so our human nature can never be so fallen as to be unable to have enough natural reason to prove God's existence (Summa Theologić: Whether every act of an unbeliever is sin?, ad 3):
Quote:
Unbelief does not so wholly destroy naturalreason in unbelievers, but that some knowledge of the truth remains in them
As a start, I would suggest that one reviews the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section Edition, paragraphs 355-421 for what is involved in human nature and how Catholicism treats the word "fallen" in regard to present-day humans.

Coincidentally, I am looking at "fallen" human nature from the Catholic position in thread "Churches rejecting science altogether", starting around post 451, in the Philosophy Forum.

As for natural reason, I am assuming that from the Catholic position this would refer to the rational faculties of the spiritual soul which were not totally lost due to Original Sin. Humans still have intellect and will just as Adam has. However, we are wounded in the natural powers proper to human nature. The effects of Original Sin include being subject to ignorance, suffering, and the dominion of death. Also there is an inclination to evil. (refer to CCC 405)

I am not sure about disproving reliance on faith alone because faith and science are *both-and* and not a mutually exclusive *or*.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Philosophy

Bookmarks

Tags
aristotle, philosophy, reason, science, thomism

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
6652CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
6278Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: hazcompat
5222Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
4631Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4332Poems and Reflections
Last by: Purgatory Pete
4055OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: Fischli
3295For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: GLam8833
3261Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Herculees
2831Let's Empty Purgatory 2
Last by: Jeannie52
2449SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:43 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.