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  #1  
Old May 20, '12, 6:33 am
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Windmill Windmill is offline
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Default SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

[edited] since Baronius Press recently released its Breviarium Romanum.

I am most interested in:

1. What do working people have time for?

2. What draws you to the particular version you use (in light of previous exposure to other versions)?

3. Which hours do you typically pray from your Office?

Last edited by Jean Anthony; May 20, '12 at 8:00 am. Reason: no longer applies
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  #2  
Old May 20, '12, 9:40 am
curlycool89 curlycool89 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

I use the ICEL english 4 volume LOTH set (published by CBP).

I use this set because it's in english, it's approved for Canada, and it will be the set I'll use into the future (this is what they use at the Seminary I'll be starting at in the fall; they also use the Mundelein Psalter which is for chanting).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill View Post
1. What do working people have time for?

...

3. Which hours do you typically pray from your Office?
I pray the 5 hours that clergy are required to pray (Morning, Evening, OoR, Daytime, and Night), and usually it'll be the Midday Prayer for the Daytime.

For working people, it depends what kind of schedule you have. I've managed to pray all of the above while working, but in previous jobs I probably wouldn't have had time for all of them (that was before I started praying the LOTH).
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  #3  
Old May 20, '12, 10:52 am
Dies_Irae Dies_Irae is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

I use a monastic diurnal, so no matins.

I usually pray prime and compline, because they are my favourite hours and they are also shorter. I don't have time for terce, sexte or none on days I am working. However, I know that praying lauds and vespers are the "recommended" hours, and it makes sense because it ties us in with the calendar of the saints. I try to pray lauds and vespers on my days off, usually instead of prime and compline.

I am getting a complete breviary next week, so hopefully I'll have time to pray matins some days - really, this is my absolute favourite hour.

I know it sounds complicated, but you need to figure out how much time you can devote to the divine office. As lay people, we are not obligated to pray any of the hours, so don't beat yourself up if you don't pray all the hours every day. Start by one hour (I recommend compline because it's the easiest) and make it a habit. Once it's a habit, then start adding others, one at a time.
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  #4  
Old May 20, '12, 11:00 am
mikelionheart mikelionheart is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dies_Irae View Post
I use a monastic diurnal, so no matins.

I usually pray prime and compline, because they are my favourite hours and they are also shorter. I don't have time for terce, sexte or none on days I am working. However, I know that praying lauds and vespers are the "recommended" hours, and it makes sense because it ties us in with the calendar of the saints. I try to pray lauds and vespers on my days off, usually instead of prime and compline.

I am getting a complete breviary next week, so hopefully I'll have time to pray matins some days - really, this is my absolute favourite hour.

I know it sounds complicated, but you need to figure out how much time you can devote to the divine office. As lay people, we are not obligated to pray any of the hours, so don't beat yourself up if you don't pray all the hours every day. Start by one hour (I recommend compline because it's the easiest) and make it a habit. Once it's a habit, then start adding others, one at a time.
Wonderful advice.
I think I've messed up in the past by trying to do the whole thing straight away.
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  #5  
Old May 20, '12, 12:01 pm
Dies_Irae Dies_Irae is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Thanks.

I started too much too soon as well, and ended up giving up a few times. I found this wonderful internet advice (can't remember where) which helped me, and now I pass it on.
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  #6  
Old May 20, '12, 4:32 pm
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

As a Benedictine Oblate I try to use the same breviary that my abbey uses. In this case, monastic schema B, with a couple of small modifications, the most important one being an option in the breviary to spread it over two weeks.

However in the summer months I am busier, so I often as now use the 4-week Liturgy of the Hours. I generally chant Lauds and Vespers in Latin, in Gregorian chant, for that I use either books from my abbey or for the 4-week LOTH, a wonderful resource (in Latin and French): Les Heures Grégoriennes.

The reason for that is on weekends in summer I rarely have time to pray Terce and None, so the option for a single mid-day hour around lunch time has appeal.

For the readings for Vigils, I use the 2-year lectionary.
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  #7  
Old May 20, '12, 4:56 pm
FloridaJoan FloridaJoan is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Years ago I started with The Little Office of The Blessed Virgin Mary, then used Shorter Christian Prayer, then Christian Prayer ( 1 vol ), then 4 vol LOTH. Recently I acquired the 3 vol Roman Breviary from Baronius. I am now using the 3 vol ; i am still in the learning stage( with the RB ) at this point and find it challenging. I use the English most of the time; although I do attempt the Latin from time to time ( my 4 years of HS Latin were many years ago ). My favorite is Matins , but I pray Lauds, ( sometimes Terce, Sext, None and/or Vespers,) and always Compline. I am not employed outside my home so time is not an issue. I find much peace , solace and hope praying the Divine Office, the prayer of the Church and do appreciate the Breviarium Romanum text.
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  #8  
Old May 21, '12, 3:38 pm
Spes509 Spes509 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

I use an Anglican Breviary--its English has a certain stately quality to it and my spiritual director, being a former ECUSA clergyman himself (a member of the Cowley Fathers actually) had no objections.

http://www.anglicanbreviary.net/pictures.html
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  #9  
Old May 21, '12, 5:40 pm
mattkubes mattkubes is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

When I can, I use Divinum Officium on my iPad:
http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl

Either 1960 Rubrics or Divino Afflatu.
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  #10  
Old May 21, '12, 5:50 pm
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

What attracts folks to the 1960 Breviary?

As a Benedictine it holds very little attraction to me. It's not traditional by any definition (it dates back to 1910 only), and is a very clear break from the monastic roots of the Divine Office. If I had the time I'd use the traditional Benedictine Divine Office (or at least the post V-II variant). In fact even the post V-II version of the Benedictine Office is far more traditional than the Breviarum Romanum, and has the advantage of still being in use in many places.
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  #11  
Old May 21, '12, 6:11 pm
mattkubes mattkubes is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OraLabora View Post
What attracts folks to the 1960 Breviary?
I only attend the TLM. It coincides with the liturgical calendar in use at my parish.

Quote:
As a Benedictine it holds very little attraction to me. It's not traditional by any definition (it dates back to 1910 only), and is a very clear break from the monastic roots of the Divine Office.
I prefer the Benedictine layout, but this is a bit much. Although I'd love to hear what you'd have to say about the LoTH with its monthly psalter (minus the dropped verses/psalms that were too offensive) and those sometimes nauseating psalm-prayers (which are optional, I know). I loved the patristic writings in the Office of Readings, but my 4-volume set has been packed away for a while now.
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  #12  
Old May 22, '12, 3:19 pm
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkubes View Post
I only attend the TLM. It coincides with the liturgical calendar in use at my parish.



I prefer the Benedictine layout, but this is a bit much. Although I'd love to hear what you'd have to say about the LoTH with its monthly psalter (minus the dropped verses/psalms that were too offensive) and those sometimes nauseating psalm-prayers (which are optional, I know). I loved the patristic writings in the Office of Readings, but my 4-volume set has been packed away for a while now.
The Psalm prayers are not in every breviary and are optional. They're not in the French 4-week LOTH, but are in the French monastic breviary that I most frequently used. They're not in the French/Latin standard Benedictine psalter either, nor in Liturgia Horarum except as part of a supplement. So I can't really comment on them as I don't use them. Never have, never will.

The monthly psalter for the LOTH doesn't really bother me that much. The breviary was designed for busy secular clergy. It fits that mission well. It isn't the only 4-week cycle out there either, some monastic communities have their own.

The imprecatory psalms and verses were removed, as you noted. I am not that crazy about that fact; but one thing should be pointed out, this was at the insistence of Paul VI, and not Annibale Bugnini as many probably think. The Monastic breviary I use keeps those psalms as well as the imprecatory verses, placing them in brackets or as footnotes. The community I'm associated with still uses them. I have Les Heures Grégoriennes, a Latin/French diurnal antiphonary for the LOTH (noted for Gregorian chant) that places the imprecatory verses in brackets, though the deleted psalms aren't there.

If you really dig into it though, you might be surprised at how many deep traditions have been kept in the LOTH; particularly if you read the General Instructions carefully and avail yourself of the many options.

Here's a few:

The traditional Lauds and Vespers psalms are found... at Lauds and Vespers. The Vespers series leads off with ps. 109 every Sunday.

The basic structure is the same except for the placement of the hymn which has been standardized.

Ps. 50 is repeated every Friday (in the monastic tradition it was every day).

Ps. 66 can be used as an invitatory; if you pray the invitatory before Lauds, that is a reminder of the monastic tradition that always led off Lauds with this psalm.

You can use Ps. 4, 90 and 133 for Compline every night, and you won't miss psalms, because the psalms for Compline except 4, 90 and 133 are repeated elsewhere in the psalter.

You can pray a "vigil" for Sundays, feasts and solemnities using the appendix.

You can pray the Office of Readings as Vigils; moreover the GILH recommends that religious communities pray them over a 2-week cycle. When I use the LOTH, I divide the OOR into two "nocturnes" (I pray it usually at 6 am), with the OOR psalms from week 1 combined with the psalms from week 2, and week 3 and week 4 together. Add the OT canticles for Sundays, feasts and solemnities, and you have a proper 3-nocturne Vigil office.

There is a notion of "lectio continua" for the psalms; St. Benedict basically ordered a series of psalms for Vigils, another for Lauds and one for Vespers, to be recited in numerical order (with some exceptions). Much of this has been retained in the LOTH.

The other mid-day canonical hours can be added to the mid-day office, so you can pray Terce, Sext and None. Moreover the psalms are taken from the Gradual Psalms, which is traditional for those offices (another appendix in the LOTH).

What I don't like: the NT canticles instead of a third psalm at Vespers. They don't chant well, as it doesn't have the same poetic cadences as the psalms.

The division of psalms, which created a whole bunch of new antiphons which meant a 40-year delay to get a Roman Antiphonary noted for chant. This same mistake though, was also made in Pius X's 1910 psalter. It really messes things up for where the Office is chanted in community.

What I'm indifferent to: the addition of intercessions at Lauds and Vespers. However keeping with tradition to some extent, the last intercession at Vespers is always for the deceased; previously we recited, after the closing of the Office, "Fidelium animae per misericordiam Dei requiescant in pace".

In short, while I would prefer a 1 or 2-week cycle rather than 4-week cycle, I can see where the 4-week does come in handy; I use it when I travel or when I'm especially busy. And I can also see that while this Office has been so much maligned, if you dig enough it really isn't that bad either. Moreover, many of the changes, except for the number of psalms, were "pioneered" in the 1910 Pius X breviary (who unlike Paul VI, did not allow communities or clergy to retain the previous Office), so really shouldn't come as a shock to students of the 1970 Liturgia Horarum. The most radical ones IMHO was the sectioning of psalms, the shortening of Vigils, and the breaking up of the three Laudate psalms at Lauds (Ps. 148, 149, 150).
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  #13  
Old May 22, '12, 6:52 pm
superamazingman superamazingman is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill View Post
[edited] since Baronius Press recently released its Breviarium Romanum.

I am most interested in:

1. What do working people have time for?

2. What draws you to the particular version you use (in light of previous exposure to other versions)?

3. Which hours do you typically pray from your Office?
I use the Liturgy of the Hours (ie, the ordinary form) either from my 4 volume set, or from the iBreviary app on my iPhone/iTouch. I pray it because the wide exposure (my friends and I all pray it together whenever we get together, and one of my parishes also has sung celebrations of the office frequently). That being said, I'd certanly not be against switching over to the EF if it were available to me, particularly for free via iPhone app.

I pray it whenever I can. Some days, I'll pray most of the hours, other days, just compline. It really depends.
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  #14  
Old May 22, '12, 8:07 pm
mattkubes mattkubes is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

A wealth of info - many thanks, OraLabora.
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  #15  
Old May 22, '12, 8:13 pm
mattkubes mattkubes is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Which Divine Office do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superamazingman View Post
I use the Liturgy of the Hours (ie, the ordinary form) either from my 4 volume set, or from the iBreviary app on my iPhone/iTouch. I pray it because the wide exposure (my friends and I all pray it together whenever we get together, and one of my parishes also has sung celebrations of the office frequently). That being said, I'd certanly not be against switching over to the EF if it were available to me, particularly for free via iPhone app.
Even if you don't plan on using it often, Breviarum Meum is available for free on the iPhone. And the HD version for iPad is only $0.99.

Parallel translations can be turned on in the settings pane too. It's worth a look!
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