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Old Feb 28, '12, 9:09 am
Robert Sungenis Robert Sungenis is offline
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Join Date: February 17, 2012
Posts: 17
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Jesus also the Messiah for the Jews?

Mr. Palm, you write: “And let’s not forget that the promise of a future special conversion of the Jews to Christ marks them out as special as well. No other group is given such a promise in Scripture and the teaching of the Fathers. This doctrine is taught by dozens of Fathers and Doctors of the Church and has been reiterated again in the CCC (par. 674). Fr. Denis Fahey himself—after surveying the weight of the witnesses for this belief through Church history—says, “The conversion of the Jewish people to the true Supernatural Messias is, therefore, certain . . .”

Unfortunately for you, it is not Catholic dogma and it is not taught in CCC 674. Once again, you read into a given text what you want to see. CCC 674 merely says “The ‘full inclusion’ of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of ‘the full number of Gentiles…” CCC 674 doesn’t define what it means by “full inclusion of the Jews.” It could easily refer to all the Jews from Abraham to Christ’s second coming that become saved, not a large group of Jews just before Jesus returns. Nowhere does the CCC teach that there will be an en masse conversion of Jews before Christ returns. As for the Fathers and medievals, there is no firm consensus on the issue, besides the fact that the “en masse conversion of Jews” idea originated with the Premillennial eschatology that the Church rejected at the Council of Ephesus. In fact, we recently found a number of them who say that the Jews will remain unrepentant until the end of time (e.g., Chrysostom, Agobard, Bruno, Juliana of Norwich, Liguori, and Popes Gregory the Great, Innocent III, Gregory IX, Martin V).

You write: “Can you see understand a bit more now as to why we have described your approach to this as a ‘Theology of Prejudice’”?

This is just another example of your infamous demagoguery. The larger problem is your reading into Church documents what you want to see; your redefining of basic English words to suit your own agenda; and your ignoring of basic Scripture texts just because they have no official Catholic commentary.

Mr. Palm, a word of warning. If you want to continue this dialogue, then you need to stop the name-calling, the caricatures, the accusations, the digging up things from the past that are argumentative, which are obviously done in an effort to draw prejudice against me. I am simply not going to put up with it any longer. If you don't stop, this will be the last dialogue I have with you.

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