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  #46  
Old Aug 11, '10, 7:06 am
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Stylites Stylites is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Where's the videos of a man using surgical instruments to root out pieces of the Eucharist caught in a person's teeth? I'm sorry, but anyone who flippantly invests so much time in slamming a liturgical practice recommended by a bishop needs to be ignored.

Being zealous for the Lord is one thing. Being a self-appointed defender of God's honor from the impious hands and thoughtless hearts of the Church is another.
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Last edited by Stylites; Aug 11, '10 at 7:19 am.
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  #47  
Old Aug 11, '10, 8:09 am
Layman Layman is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

Leavened bread = valid but illicit in the Roman rite, AFAIK.

Maybe our spiritual forefathers stopped using it for the very problem the O.P. pointed out: crumbs!.

Try breaking ordinary bread. It's messy. However, small, unleavened wafers carefully made according to a recipe = minimal mess. No anguish over dropped bits. One less thing to worry about in saying Mass. Proceed towards sanctification with an untroubled mind
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  #48  
Old Aug 11, '10, 8:14 am
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Stylites Stylites is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Proceed towards sanctification with an untroubled mind
Great advice!
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  #49  
Old Aug 11, '10, 9:11 am
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by Stylites View Post
I'm sorry, but anyone who flippantly invests so much time in slamming a liturgical practice recommended by a bishop needs to be ignored.
I believe the Vatican still has the last word on this. And if you look at both videos, the actual document is presented.

And what about this bishop:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/05/recei...thout-a-fight/
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  #50  
Old Aug 11, '10, 9:13 am
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by Stylites View Post
Where's the videos of a man using surgical instruments to root out pieces of the Eucharist caught in a person's teeth?
Not necessary. That's what our Lord gave us tongues for.
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  #51  
Old Aug 11, '10, 11:04 am
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by Layman View Post
Leavened bread = valid but illicit in the Roman rite, AFAIK.

Maybe our spiritual forefathers stopped using it for the very problem the O.P. pointed out: crumbs!.

Try breaking ordinary bread. It's messy. However, small, unleavened wafers carefully made according to a recipe = minimal mess. No anguish over dropped bits. One less thing to worry about in saying Mass. Proceed towards sanctification with an untroubled mind
Unleavened bread is also flakey. That is why at some point in the past, the Churches who use unleavened bread opted to make it into thin wafers to minimize the crumbs.

I have yet to see how the Byzantine Rite handles the bread. I'm sure they do it well.
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  #52  
Old Aug 11, '10, 12:09 pm
CDNowak CDNowak is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by ConstantineTG View Post
I have yet to see how the Byzantine Rite handles the bread. I'm sure they do it well.
The loaf is cut before the consecration (maybe outside of the liturgy). Due to intinction and communion via the spoon, any crumbs are "caught" in the Precious Blood, so no worries.
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  #53  
Old Aug 11, '10, 1:47 pm
pcg2 pcg2 is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

This was discussed ad nauseam on another thread. Suffice it to say, some people thought that it would be a sin not to pursue all the way to the halls of Rome their own little hobby-horse abuses, and refused to discuss the implication that it would be sinful not to pursue to Rome minor abuses (e.g., how the cincture of the alb is tied).

You can read the thread here, starting at about post 153 (on the page I've linked), if you'd like to recap; it was eventually closed due to the nature of the discussion. I'm not going to rehash it all, I'm happy to say.[/quote]

Exactly the thread that I was going to lead them to Thanks, Mark!
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  #54  
Old Aug 11, '10, 1:47 pm
pcg2 pcg2 is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by MarkThompson View Post
Don't misunderstand, I think there's a (very fuzzy) line to be drawn. I simply can't abide the notion that, in the context of a passage obviously intended to empower people to act to correct the liturgy, the Pope actually created a massive new category of sin: failure to report a liturgical abuse and pursue such complaints to the highest level possible. And that instead of saying that plainly, he worded it obliquely, with absolutely no citation or reference to the Church Fathers, canon law, theology, or anything else.

I am inclined to agree that in some cases it would be sinful to fail to bring certain types of abuses to light -- especially if one kept silence for the purpose of allowing them to continue -- but I think such an argument would have to be propounded on a case-by-case basis with due regard to the circumstances, and that one cannot simply say, "It is a sin if you don't report an abuse. See RS." RS, after all, doesn't say we should exercise extra diligence to stamp out graviora delicta. It says that a person must do "all that is in their power" to eradicate "any and every irreverence or distortion." The document actually only defines the various categories of abuses in the context of laying out their canonical penalties; it gives no reason to think that "any and every irreverence" means "wink wink, just the important ones, I mean let's be serious here."

As far as I know, no Church or canonical authority has clarified that the document was intended to create any moral obligation on the faithful at all. Given the obvious impracticability of the plain text, I'd have a tough time figuring that we ought to be guessing ourselves at the lines to be drawn here without some clarification from Rome -- particularly if we're talking about matters of sin rather than good manners.

Needless to say, I'm not a moral theologian either, so don't take my judgment to the bank just because I said so.
Great post!!!
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  #55  
Old Aug 11, '10, 1:48 pm
pcg2 pcg2 is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

Okay, so now that it has been cleared up that we are using the right type of bread, I guess the answer to my question is to simply tell the priest about this problem? And then what? What is he supposed to do about it? And what am I supposed to do about all the crumbs?
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  #56  
Old Aug 11, '10, 4:00 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

Quote:
=ConstantineTG;6934168]People shouldn't be discouraged. I know its hard, but the only way for abuses to end is if we actually do something. Non-stop complaining on CAF won't change a thing. Running away from parishes also won't change a thing. If we expect change, we should effect change, not run away from it.
Addressing abuses factually, knowledgeably and with CHARITY is a Catholic OBLIGATION, not someting to allow others take care of it. We are either part of the soluataion OR WE PART OF THE PROBLEM. WWJD?
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  #57  
Old Aug 11, '10, 4:08 pm
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by pcg2 View Post
Okay, so now that it has been cleared up that we are using the right type of bread, I guess the answer to my question is to simply tell the priest about this problem? And then what? What is he supposed to do about it? And what am I supposed to do about all the crumbs?
I can't give a suggestion as I have yet to see something like this done.

Depends on how the bread looks like and how big it is, you'd probably need a large paten, or a golden plate to hold the bread itself. Its a big cost issue by itself which is why I don't think this practice is widespread. Can you give me a visual on what the bread looks like? Go to images.google.com and then search unleavened bread and then give me a link so I'd have an idea what the bread looks like.
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  #58  
Old Aug 12, '10, 3:42 am
Layman Layman is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by CDNowak View Post
The loaf is cut before the consecration (maybe outside of the liturgy). Due to intinction and communion via the spoon, any crumbs are "caught" in the Precious Blood, so no worries.
See? Simple practicality!

Use bread which doesn't flake!

Errrr.... doesn't unleavened bread figure in Passover, too?
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  #59  
Old Aug 12, '10, 1:34 pm
pcg2 pcg2 is offline
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Default Re: Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor...

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Originally Posted by ConstantineTG View Post
I can't give a suggestion as I have yet to see something like this done.

Depends on how the bread looks like and how big it is, you'd probably need a large paten, or a golden plate to hold the bread itself. Its a big cost issue by itself which is why I don't think this practice is widespread. Can you give me a visual on what the bread looks like? Go to images.google.com and then search unleavened bread and then give me a link so I'd have an idea what the bread looks like.
http://www.ecurry.com/blog/wp-conten...-3-500x449.jpg

Something like that... except it is dark brown and not as tall... and obviously it is unleavened and has a cross imprinted in it (like the wafers.)

The other thing I was thinking about is that it might be the communicants who are dropping it, not the EMHCs...
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