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  #151  
Old Jul 4, '15, 9:24 am
adrift adrift is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
So Muslims are very right to say Jesus was a prophet. The beyond of that is the comprehension and consideration of Christians. Because Jesus never said directly that He was God or Son of God but Christians reason that through strained interpretation. To be son of God or to forgive sins are attributes which people ascribed to Jesus. It works in that way people say Jesus did or said that therefore Jesus must be so and so. But it can be interpreted in many different ways.Yet Jesus was just a prophet.

But I appreciate Christians for endeavor to try explain and solve all conflicts in the doctrines. The doctrines were established by people so peole should go at great effort to defend.
Jesus directly said He was God.
You keep making this false statement and when you are corrected you keep saying it anyway What you write is a lie.
John 8:56
Quote:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."
The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"
Exodus 3:13
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
Mark 14:60–64
Quote:
‘And the high priest arose and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, “Do you make no answer to what these men are testifying against you?” But he kept silent and made no answer. Again the high priest was questioning him, and saying to him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said,
“I Am
; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” And tearing his clothes, the high priest said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned him to be deserving of death.’
As I stated Jesus is not just a prophet that is your false belief that ignores everything else such as priest king and our God as Thomas acknowledged and Jesus did not refute.
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  #152  
Old Jul 4, '15, 9:35 am
adrift adrift is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasantas View Post

Jesus imply that God is another person.
He does no such thing.

Quote:
Father and Son is not one. It is obvious in verses
It is obvious that you don't know what obvious means.

Quote:
. So to say Father and Son is one through love is pointless. That is the direct meaning in the verses so it is not use to make strained interpretations.
Your interpretation is strained as Jesus directly states the Father and I are one. Jesus was surprised that His apostles after being with Him and see all that He had done asked to see the Father because He is God.

Quote:
God is in Jesus means Jesus has absolute knowledge and order of God
.
Of course since He is God.
Quote:
Jesus performed many miracles by permission of God
Your unsubstantiated opinion.
Quote:
and Jesus had revelation from God. So who has seen Jesus so has seen Father mean Jesus made God known very obviously. Jesus was in form of human and Jesus lived just like a human and a prophet so it is not importand who was in Jesus. And also it is not possible for God to dwell in a body physically because God is not physical
.
God is unlimited and can do anything and did because He emptied Himself into being a human.

Quote:
God create physical laws and God is not one of law which God created. If God create someting so that is a creature anymore and God do not be at same time a creator and a creature! Indeed God never be a creature or part of it. That issue is debated in Sufism in Islam. Some Sufis said "all is God" but that is not true. The fact is that "all is from God".
You limit God It must be the language barrier but none of this make sense. I don't care about what is debated in Islam. I care about the truth that Jesus revealed not lies.

Did Jesus really claim to be God
Quote:
On a number of occasions, Jesus implied that he was equal with God the Father by receiving honor and worship that only God should receive. In a confrontation with Satan, Jesus said, ‘It is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve him only”’ (Matthew 4:10). Yet Jesus received worship as God (Matthew 14:33; 28:9) and sometimes even demanded to be worshipped as God (John 5:23; compare Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8–14).
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  #153  
Old Jul 5, '15, 2:26 am
hasantas hasantas is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by adrift View Post
Jesus directly said He was God.
You keep making this false statement and when you are corrected you keep saying it anyway What you write is a lie.
John 8:56
Mark 14:60–64
As I stated Jesus is not just a prophet that is your false belief that ignores everything else such as priest king and our God as Thomas acknowledged and Jesus did not refute.
You accuse me to lie. Lie is mortal sin. That is not fair. I had never read a statement in which Jesus said "I am God". I stated that Jesus said or did something and people ascribed Jesus to be so or so. For instance you say Jesus said that He was before Abraham and yu claim that Jesus must be God. That is just what I stated. Prophet Muhammad said His light and essence was created before everything. So Muhammad was before universe, Abraham and Jesus. Should Muhammad be God? That is very dangerous.

The son of God is a metaphorical statement for Jesus. It is stated in Bible somewhere. To be God or son of God are assertions which people attributed to Jesus but such things never Jesus said by Himself. So to accuse a man to say lie is a serious responsibility. Lie do not solve anything. I know that very well.
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  #154  
Old Jul 5, '15, 12:02 pm
adrift adrift is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
You accuse me to lie. Lie is mortal sin. That is not fair. I had never read a statement in which Jesus said "I am God". I stated that Jesus said or did something and people ascribed Jesus to be so or so. For instance you say Jesus said that He was before Abraham and yu claim that Jesus must be God. That is just what I stated. Prophet Muhammad said His light and essence was created before everything. So Muhammad was before universe, Abraham and Jesus. Should Muhammad be God? That is very dangerous.

.
I find this fascinating.
I never directly stated that you lied.
So if I didn't say it directly than I didn't tell you that you lied.
Isn't that your criteria?

Jesus Said:
I AM the name of God and those around Him understood that He was saying He was God
For they said He blasphemes by making Himself God. You chose to focus in on the before Abraham but that overlooks that Jesus said He was I AM.

Jesus told Peter when Peter said Jesus was the Son of God that the Holy Spirit had revealed it to him not that He was wrong.

When Tomas worshiped Jesus as both his Lord and His GOD. Jesus did not reprimand Him and tell him I am not your God.

Jesus said that He and the Father were one

Quote:
The son of God is a metaphorical statement for Jesus. It is stated in Bible somewhere. To be God or son of God are assertions which people attributed to Jesus but such things never Jesus said by Himself. So to accuse a man to say lie is a serious responsibility. Lie do not solve anything. I know that very well
I wonder if you understand what metaphoric means.?
You say Jesus never said by Himself?
This is what happened at Jesus' trial
Quote:
Again the high priest was questioning him, and saying to him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
Jesus is asked are you the Son of the Blessed One? Jesus answers I am. How more direct can you get?
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  #155  
Old Jul 5, '15, 5:36 pm
clem456 clem456 is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
If we treat religious or such issues just according to one subject so we cannot conclude rightly. So we should also treat that issue according to wisdom, eternality, majesty and all other attributes, acts and laws of God. God is not merely love. Yes love is an importand attribute but there is no just love.
Merely love? Merely?
I'm not referring to love as an emotion or sentiment.
That is not love. Love contains all other things like wisdom and justice.


Quote:
God Is Love

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.
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  #156  
Old Jul 6, '15, 12:34 am
hasantas hasantas is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
=adrift;13100120]He does no such thing.

It is obvious that you don't know what obvious means.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. John 8:40

Jesus heard from God, Jesus asked from God, Jesus sent by God etc. All these statements are in all where Bible. Gospels are full of such statements. So you ignore all these evidences by which Jesus imply God is another person but you recognise some verses by which Jesus might imply that He was God! Accordin to general statements it is very obvious that Jesus and Father are very different persons. But it is very uncertain and cloudy that Jesus could be God. And you follow apprehensions and suppositions as Qur'an mentions.

Quote:
Your interpretation is strained as Jesus directly states the Father and I are one. Jesus was surprised that His apostles after being with Him and see all that He had done asked to see the Father because He is God.
So Jesus did not say directly He and Father are one. So we can interpret diffrently like that: Jesus was a very certain evidence for God so Jesus was surprised that His apostles after being Him and see all that He had done asked to see the Father because He is from God.


Quote:
Of course since He is God.
Muhammed had knowledge of God but He was not God

Quote:
Your unsubstantiated opinion.
Qur'an is not unsubstantiated but you repeat that. You should refute my opinions in a fair way. And I try to debate through Bible. If I would do that by Qur'an it would be very easy. I can see the facts in your religion but you never approach me by centimeter. You have a great prophet and religion so you should be more valiant.
.
Quote:
God is unlimited and can do anything and did because He emptied Himself into being a human.

You limit God It must be the language barrier but none of this make sense. I don't care about what is debated in Islam. I care about the truth that Jesus revealed not lies.
Nobody could explain how a transition could be possible between eternal and mortal. It is not enough to say if God wish He could do every thing.

God is unlimited but if God became man so God is limited anymore! Was not Jesus limited as a human? If that human part of Jesus is very apart from deity part so why to say God became man? If that human part is not apart so God is a human and limited. If you say God became man so you bound God.

That barrier is not kind of which in a language!
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  #157  
Old Jul 6, '15, 2:01 am
hasantas hasantas is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

Quote:
=adrift;13100120] I care about the truth that Jesus revealed not lies.
Nobody say Jesus revealed lie. But people misinterpreted what He revealed.

Jesus never claim to be worshiped. Perhaps that worship mean respect or honour someone as in that verse:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23

Jesus was Christ and Messiah. Jesus was born without a father so that term Son is metaphorical.

(John 20:26-29) There are many people who believe Jesus without seeing any miracle directly from Him. His apostles had seen miracles so they believed but Jesus bless people who do not see any miracle but yet believe. Thomas believed after seeing miracle.

(I and my Father are one. John 10:30) Then look at that: 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10

Father is greater than all and ofcourse greater than Jesus as it is mentioned in another verse. So we can interpret 10:30 in that way: Jesus performed what just Father ordered so Jesus and Father were one. Jesus imply that in many verses. Jesus said He was sent by Father and He did what Father revealed to Him.

(John 10:31-33) Jesus claimed to be God so they thought Jesus was in blasphemy? Then read the next. Jesus explained that:

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

It should be written in OT.

(‘If you knew me, you would know my Father also’ (John 8:19); ‘He who beholds me beholds the One who sent me’ (John 12:45); ‘He who hates me, hates my Father also’ (John 15:23); ‘All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him’ (John 5:23).)

These references do not indicate that Jesus was more than a man. Jesus was sent by God so Jesus was Apostle and Messenger of God. So who does honor Son also does honor Father because Son was sent in the name of Father.

Jesus Christ was Son of Blessed One(Mary)! That term is repeated in Qur'an too.
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  #158  
Old Jul 6, '15, 6:51 am
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DCNBILL DCNBILL is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. John 8:40

Jesus heard from God, Jesus asked from God, Jesus sent by God etc. All these statements are in all where Bible. Gospels are full of such statements. So you ignore all these evidences by which Jesus imply God is another person but you recognise some verses by which Jesus might imply that He was God! Accordin to general statements it is very obvious that Jesus and Father are very different persons. But it is very uncertain and cloudy that Jesus could be God. And you follow apprehensions and suppositions as Qur'an mentions.



So Jesus did not say directly He and Father are one.
He most certainly did and the Jews wanted to stone Him for it.

The Gospel of John Chapter 10

30 The Father and I are one
.”

31 The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”
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  #159  
Old Jul 6, '15, 10:50 am
adrift adrift is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. John 8:40

Jesus heard from God, Jesus asked from God, Jesus sent by God etc. All these statements are in all where Bible. Gospels are full of such statements. So you ignore all these evidences by which Jesus imply God is another person but you recognise some verses by which Jesus might imply that He was God! Accordin to general statements it is very obvious that Jesus and Father are very different persons. But it is very uncertain and cloudy that Jesus could be God. And you follow apprehensions and suppositions as Qur'an mentions.
The word you use is " imply" that God is anther person. What you believe implies does not. Jesus doesn't say it directly. Jesus doesn't say that God is different from Him and is another person. Jesus is both God and Man. Jesus answers as a human all the statements you quote. Jesus does not "imply" that He is God it is stated outright that Jesus is God. The Qur'an is made up by a human.

Quote:
So Jesus did not say directly He and Father are one. So we can interpret diffrently like that: Jesus was a very certain evidence for God so Jesus was surprised that His apostles after being Him and see all that He had done asked to see the Father because He is from God.
An untrue statement:
DCNBILL stated it best
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCNBILL View Post
He most certainly did and the Jews wanted to stone Him for it.

The Gospel of John Chapter 10

30 The Father and I are one
.”

31 The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”

Quote:
Nobody could explain how a transition could be possible between eternal and mortal. It is not enough to say if God wish He could do every thing.

God is unlimited but if God became man so God is limited anymore! Was not Jesus limited as a human? If that human part of Jesus is very apart from deity part so why to say God became man? If that human part is not apart so God is a human and limited. If you say God became man so you bound God.
No I do not bind God but I believe Him when Jesus says He is God. I don't understand but no human mind can. You are trying to parse Jesus. Jesus is fully man and fully God. Jesus revealed this to us. Because you follow what I consider a false prophet you are unable to accept what scriptures clearly teach. You interpret them according to writings that I consider false. You believe that you can decide God


Quote:

That barrier is not kind of which in a language!
I don't know what you are saying it makes no sense.
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  #160  
Old Jul 6, '15, 12:58 pm
adrift adrift is offline
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Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
Nobody say Jesus revealed lie. But people misinterpreted what He revealed.
I agree since what you write is a prime example of it.

Quote:
Jesus never claim to be worshiped. Perhaps that worship mean respect or honour someone as in that verse:
Thomas called Jesus His God. Worship is giving honor to God. So you are wrong.


Quote:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23
A mere human should have the same honor as God
Quote:
was Christ and Messiah. Jesus was born without a father so that term Son is metaphorical.
One does not equate to the other. Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus did not have an earthly father. There is metaphorical again it makes no sense which makes me wonder again do you know the meaning of the word.
Quote:
(John 20:26-29) There are many people who believe Jesus without seeing any miracle directly from Him. His apostles had seen miracles so they believed but Jesus bless people who do not see any miracle but yet believe. Thomas believed after seeing miracle.(I and my Father are one. John 10:30) Then look at that: 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10
This really doesn't address or answer the point I made. It is a non sequitur.

Quote:
Father is greater than all and ofcourse greater than Jesus as it is mentioned in another verse. So we can interpret 10:30 in that way: Jesus performed what just Father ordered so Jesus and Father were one. Jesus imply that in many verses. Jesus said He was sent by Father and He did what Father revealed to Him.
Not very clear on what you are trying to state.

Quote:
(John 10:31-33) Jesus claimed to be God so they thought Jesus was in blasphemy? Then read the next. Jesus explained that:

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

It should be written in OT.

(‘If you knew me, you would know my Father also’ (John 8:19); ‘He who beholds me beholds the One who sent me’ (John 12:45); ‘He who hates me, hates my Father also’ (John 15:23); ‘All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him’ (John 5:23).)

These references do not indicate that Jesus was more than a man. Jesus was sent by God so Jesus was Apostle and Messenger of God. So who does honor Son also does honor Father because Son was sent in the name of Father.
Put this into context because Jesus follows it with
Quote:
can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated 16 and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

37

If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;

38

but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realize (and understand) that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

39

(Then) they tried again to arrest him; but he escaped from their power.
Clearly Jesus is saying He is God. We know this because they tried to arrest Him.

Quote:
Jesus Christ was Son of Blessed One(Mary)! That term is repeated in Qur'an too.
What is in the Qur'an has no relation to the Bible. The Blessed one is not Mary but God as the Douay has it as
Quote:
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said to him: Art thou the Christ the Son of the blessed God?
Putting it into context they said it was blasphemy. It isn't blasphemy to be the son of Mary how utterly ridiculous to say that they were referring to Mary. Why would they consider her blessed? We as Christians do because we know who Jesus is, God and human but they didn't know. For you state that they were referring to her is more than outlandish.
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  #161  
Old Jul 6, '15, 11:32 pm
hasantas hasantas is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by DCNBILL View Post
He most certainly did and the Jews wanted to stone Him for it.

The Gospel of John Chapter 10

30 The Father and I are one
.”

31 The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”
10:34 In answer, Jesus said, Is there not a saying in your law, I said, You are gods?

10:35 If he said they were gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Writings may not be broken), John 10

Jesus did not claim to be God but The Jews accused Jesus to say that. Jesus explained why He said so in the following verses(34,35). The reason is that: to whom the word of God came so they are said gods. Jesus indicated that the word of God came to Him so Jesus could be called gods according to Jews scripture(Writings).

And also the Jews did not believe in Jesus's prophethood.

So there is no a claim by Jesus to be God!
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  #162  
Old Jul 7, '15, 12:37 am
hasantas hasantas is offline
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=adrift;13104490]The word you use is " imply" that God is anther person. What you believe implies does not. Jesus doesn't say it directly. Jesus doesn't say that God is different from Him and is another person. Jesus is both God and Man. Jesus answers as a human all the statements you quote. Jesus does not "imply" that He is God it is stated outright that Jesus is God. The Qur'an is made up by a human.
If Jesus also was God so could you point an action of Jesus as God? Jesus performed miracles but many prophets did too. Jesus was raised. Anything else?

Jesus was just a prophet because Jesus did not preach until 30 years old. İn about 30s God revealed Jesus so Jesus started to preach. If Jesus Himself were God He would not wait until that times.


If you say Jesus was not God so you will lose your faith? But there are billions of people who did not say Jesus is God! God informed Himself through prophets from the first human. A faith through a prophet is valid. So if you say that Jesus was just a prophet so your faith is valid. Do not get fear.

If Jesus and God is one but the God is in Heavens(Indeed there is no physical space for God but an eternal entitiy which we cannot apprehend) and Jesus is on the world! How much percentage of God became man? Or you assume God as three persons. Hımm. Could Father be man instead of Son? Why did Father not come to do works but He always sent Holy Spirit and Son? Isn't Father is the Boss as Qur'an mentioned? Could Son resist Father? If He could not how could He be part of deity?

You say Qur'an made up by human. You are very right. Muhammad just was a human but not son or grand child!

Qur'an is directly word of God which was revealed to Muhammad through Gabriel either you accept or not. I accept that the actual Bible was from God and later was written by people. But you do not accept Qur'an as a holy scripture. And I try to argue in patience. But you accuse to say lie or you directly reject my Holy Qur'an. Were is your love for your enemies? Do you love people in that way?

Every one could say that he is right but he could not say that he is merely right. God is not so bitter to ignore most of people.



Quote:
No I do not bind God but I believe Him when Jesus says He is God. I don't understand but no human mind can. You are trying to parse Jesus. Jesus is fully man and fully God. Jesus revealed this to us. Because you follow what I consider a false prophet you are unable to accept what scriptures clearly teach. You interpret them according to writings that I consider false. You believe that you can decide God
You say that is a lie but it is a very true fact that Jesus never said He is God. I explained that. I can repeat that as countless. And I do that according to Bible but not according to a prophet you do not accept.

You and Church are able to interpret Bible so others are not?

And can you decide God?

Qur'an is direct word of God and in Qur'an God say He is one, eternal and has no copartners. Bible is not direct words of God but the essence words of God which were written by people later with comments added into. So the Bible could be misinterpret easily. The history attested that.
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  #163  
Old Jul 7, '15, 1:41 am
hasantas hasantas is offline
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=adrift;13104793]

Thomas called Jesus His God. Worship is giving honor to God. So you are wrong.

A mere human should have the same honor as God
5:23 So that all men may give honour to the Son even as they give honour to the Father. He who gives no honour to the Son gives no honour to the Father who sent him.

There is no equality as honour between Son and Father. It is mentioned to give the honour to Son for sake of Father sent Him. You should not to say "you are wrong". If you point my false I can understand. And I accept that there are some statements in Bible which make it to think Jesus was God. But there are more obvious verses to think that Jesus was just a prophet.

Quote:
One does not equate to the other. Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus did not have an earthly father. There is metaphorical again it makes no sense which makes me wonder again do you know the meaning of the word.
It is written in Bible somewhere. Holy Spirit come unto Mary and made her pregnant so Jesus is called Son of God. Mary had pregnancy without a man and God did that directly through a miracle. a question: Why did Holy Spirit put Jesus soul into Mary and Jesus(as a god, son) did not do that by Himself? Could not He do that? Why Father sent Holy Spirit and why Son and Holy Spirit could not do anything by themselves? There are no equality between gods here!


Quote:
This really doesn't address or answer the point I made. It is a non sequitur.

Not very clear on what you are trying to state.

Put this into context because Jesus follows it with

Clearly Jesus is saying He is God. We know this because they tried to arrest Him.
They tried to arrest Him so Jesus claimed to be God? Many people are arrested so all these people claim to be God?

They did not believe that Jesus was a prophet.

14:65 And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands. Mark 14

Also

6:1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching. Mark 6 and also(Matthew 13:54-58,


And Jesus were rejected for many cases.

Quote:
What is in the Qur'an has no relation to the Bible. The Blessed one is not Mary but God as the Douay has it as

Putting it into context they said it was blasphemy. It isn't blasphemy to be the son of Mary how utterly ridiculous to say that they were referring to Mary. Why would they consider her blessed? We as Christians do because we know who Jesus is, God and human but they didn't know. For you state that they were referring to her is more than outlandish.
Candidly I do not know exact it point Mary. Mary is blessed and Jesus is son of Mary. We say God bless but not God is blessed. So God blessed Mary. Perhaps that could be used for God but I cannot know exactly.

If you look at Mark 14:65 they accused Jesus blasphemy to be a prophet but not son of God. High priest asked are you the son of blessed one. Jesus answered yes I am. And Jesus said: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. After that high priest rent his clothes. Jesus did not say son of God but son of man! Here He placed an emphasize to define He was a prophet and He had a great value beside God.
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  #164  
Old Jul 7, '15, 10:06 am
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DCNBILL DCNBILL is offline
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
10:34 In answer, Jesus said, Is there not a saying in your law, I said, You are gods?

10:35 If he said they were gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Writings may not be broken), John 10

Jesus did not claim to be God but The Jews accused Jesus to say that. Jesus explained why He said so in the following verses(34,35). The reason is that: to whom the word of God came so they are said gods. Jesus indicated that the word of God came to Him so Jesus could be called gods according to Jews scripture(Writings).

And also the Jews did not believe in Jesus's prophethood.

So there is no a claim by Jesus to be God!
But you stopped too soon.

The Gospel of John chapter 10

36 can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated* and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

So Jesus says plainly in this 10 th chapter from John;

"The Father and I are one."

and

"I am the Son of God"

He is very clear, He is obviously stating that He is God the Son.

Now you may say that Jesus was a mad man, or you may say that He was a liar and a deceiver, but you obviously can not say with any validity that He did not claim to be God.
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  #165  
Old Jul 7, '15, 11:19 am
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Default Re: If God became man....

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Originally Posted by hasantas View Post
Candidly I do not know exact it point Mary. Mary is blessed and Jesus is son of Mary. We say God bless but not God is blessed. So God blessed Mary. Perhaps that could be used for God but I cannot know exactly.
..
Quote:
Jesus Christ was Son of Blessed One(Mary)! That term is repeated in Qur'an too.
There is much that I would like to answer in these post and will but right now I want to address only this:

So you admit you do not know how the high priest was pointing to Mary?
Quote:
Again the high priest was questioning him, and saying to him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said,
“I Am
It defies logic that they would call Mary blessed when they hated her Son and was putting Him on trial in order to kill Him. It is illogical to ask if Jesus was Mary's son. It is NOT Mary that they are asking Jesus if He is the Son of but the Most High, the Blessed One, God. It is why immediately they terminate the trial as from His own mouth they have heard Him blaspheme by saying He is God.
Quote:
We say God bless but not God is blessed.
Genesis 14 20: and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!"
Exodus 18 10: And Jethro said, "Blessed be the LORD, who has delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians and out of the hand of Pharaoh.
Ruth 4 14: Then the women said to Na'omi, "Blessed be the LORD, who has not left you this day without next of kin; and may his name be renowned in Israel!
1 Samuel 25 32: And David said to Ab'igail, "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who sent you this day to meet me!
1 Samuel 25 39: When David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, "Blessed be the LORD who has avenged the insult I received at the hand of Nabal, and has kept back his servant from evil; the LORD has returned the evil-doing of Nabal upon his own head." Then David sent and wooed Ab'igail, to make her his wife.
2 Samuel 18 28: Then Ahi'ma-az cried out to the king, "All is well." And he bowed before the king with his face to the earth, and said, "Blessed be the LORD your God, who has delivered up the men who raised their hand against my lord the king."
1 Kings 1 48: And the king also said, `Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who has granted one of my offspring to sit on my throne this day, my own eyes seeing it.'"
1 Chronicles 29 10: Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly; and David said: "Blessed art thou, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.
Tobit 8 5: And Tobias began to pray, "Blessed art thou, O God of our fathers, and blessed be thy holy and glorious name for ever. Let the heavens and all thy creatures bless thee.
Psalms 134 21 Blessed be the Lord out of Sion, who dwelleth in Jerusalem.
Daniel 3 52 "Blessed are you, O Lord, the God of our fathers, praiseworthy and exalted above all forever; And blessed is your holy and glorious name, praiseworthy and exalted above all for all ages.
Daniel 3 54 Blessed are you on the throne of your kingdom, praiseworthy and exalted above all forever.
Daniel 3 55 Blessed are you who look into the depths from your throne upon the cherubim, praiseworthy and exalted above all forever.
Daniel 3 56 Blessed are you in the firmament of heaven, praiseworthy and glorious forever.
2 Maccabees 1 17: Blessed in every way be our God, who has brought judgment upon those who have behaved impiously.
Luke 1 68: "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has visited and redeemed his people,
2 Corinthians 11 31: The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie.
Ephesians 1 3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
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