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  #1  
Old Jul 11, '17, 6:47 pm
bcirka bcirka is offline
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Default Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Good evening all,

I'm teaching myself ecclesiastical latin. Can anyone suggest resources to audio/video files of ecclesiastical latin being read?

After some googling, I've only found a single solid collection of readings in ecclesiastical latin.

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old Jul 12, '17, 6:30 am
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Arrow Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

PHONETICA LATINAE - How to pronounce Latin

Another site, greeklatinaudio.com, seems to have fallen off the net, but is still available through the Internet Archive -- It is not quite ecclesiastical, but definitely not restored classical either. I think the speaker is from Texas and has a kind of hispanic accent -- Consonantal J is pronounced as English H, H is not pronounced (which I believe to be mistaken), Q as English K. But still, it is much closer to ecclesiastical than to restored classical.


You might find some other resources through my resource thread, LATIN: Language Study Resources

tee
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  #3  
Old Jul 12, '17, 8:16 am
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Lightbulb Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

http://www.bolchazy.com/Latin-C1059.aspx
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  #4  
Old Jul 12, '17, 8:58 am
bcirka bcirka is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Thank you!!!

This is an excellent list!
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  #5  
Old Jul 14, '17, 8:58 am
johnnykins johnnykins is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

There are generally 3 types of pronunciation of Latin:

Italianate - Ecclesial and singing/music

Philological - Classical and now usually taught in schools

Legal (in English speaking countries) - almost extinct but responsible for some "weird" pronunciations related to the law.

So, in addition to the resources others have suggested, songs/chants in Latin are another source of Ecclesial pronunciation. Listen to some chant and or polyphony. Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus is always wonderful...Mozart's Ave Verum and Durufle's Ubi Caritas also make for wonderful listening as a reward for your efforts.
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  #6  
Old Jul 14, '17, 9:40 am
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Much of Latin pronunciation comes down to how each individual learned in the first place. In other words, there's no single way to pronounce it.

I recall, at a conference or something like that, one of our speakers was an expert in Latin. And by "expert" I mean a genuine expert. One who has spent decades teaching Latin.

When he celebrated Mass, I cringed every time he said "ag-nus dei" (rather than "an-yus"). His pronunciation of the "g" was quite distinct.

My first thought was "he ought to know better." The more I thought about it the more I realized that there simply is no one, single, authoritative way of pronouncing ecclesiastical Latin.

My point is this: you're going to see conflicting information on how Latin should be pronounced. Just accept that.
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  #7  
Old Jul 15, '17, 8:42 am
exnihilo exnihilo is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrDavid96 View Post
When he celebrated Mass, I cringed every time he said "ag-nus dei" (rather than "an-yus"). His pronunciation of the "g" was quite distinct.

My first thought was "he ought to know better." The more I thought about it the more I realized that there simply is no one, single, authoritative way of pronouncing ecclesiastical Latin.

My point is this: you're going to see conflicting information on how Latin should be pronounced. Just accept that.
I am nothing close to an expert, but learned the 'classical ' pronunciation when I took Latin in public schools. It was/is very hard for me to forget that way of pronunciation. And certain words, such as those which start with 'in', I tend to pronounce the English way.

The more I thought about it would there ever be one way of pronouncing Latin? English isn't pronounced exactly same. Where I live if I go a few hours to the mountains or a few towards the coast it is pronounced differently. Was there ever a truly universal way of pronouncing even Ecclesiastical Latin?
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  #8  
Old Jul 15, '17, 9:08 am
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

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Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
I am nothing close to an expert, but learned the 'classical ' pronunciation when I took Latin in public schools. It was/is very hard for me to forget that way of pronunciation. And certain words, such as those which start with 'in', I tend to pronounce the English way.

The more I thought about it would there ever be one way of pronouncing Latin? English isn't pronounced exactly same. Where I live if I go a few hours to the mountains or a few towards the coast it is pronounced differently. Was there ever a truly universal way of pronouncing even Ecclesiastical Latin?
Exactly. Everyone learns it differently, whether we're discussing now or 500 years ago.

There's a book called "Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin" by Fr. Collins. In my experience, that seems to be the most 'popular' book used in U.S. seminaries. I have no idea what might be used in non-English speaking countries or for that matter English speakers outside the U.S.
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Old Jul 15, '17, 7:58 pm
bcirka bcirka is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

All - Thank you so much for the responses!

I was swirling a bit before this. I'm working through the Collins book, and he has fairly strict rules for pronunciation--stressing both "short" and "long" vowels, as well as "quantity" on the letter a.

However, as I've listened to prayers, masses, etc. it seems that most ecclesiastical latin speakers just pronounce the vowels with their long sounds.

Take the word "dominus" for example. That word is ALL short vowel sounds. So according to Collins, should be pronounced dahm-ih-nus. Whereas you typically hear it pronounced, doe-mee-noos.

The posts above talking about the variability of spoken ecclesiastical latin helps to explain my earlier confusion.
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  #10  
Old Jul 15, '17, 9:00 pm
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcirka View Post
All - Thank you so much for the responses!

I was swirling a bit before this. I'm working through the Collins book, and he has fairly strict rules for pronunciation--stressing both "short" and "long" vowels, as well as "quantity" on the letter a.

However, as I've listened to prayers, masses, etc. it seems that most ecclesiastical latin speakers just pronounce the vowels with their long sounds.

Take the word "dominus" for example. That word is ALL short vowel sounds. So according to Collins, should be pronounced dahm-ih-nus. Whereas you typically hear it pronounced, doe-mee-noos.

The posts above talking about the variability of spoken ecclesiastical latin helps to explain my earlier confusion.
Perhaps the only thing I can say that would actually be useful is this: be consistent.

Pick one "set" or "method" of pronouncing it and stick with that method.

It might be a book (for example Collins)

It might be a set of recordings or some other source. It might just be listening to how local priests pronounce the words--even though most will also "add" a bit of their own local dialectal way of pronouncing English! Texas Latin is going to sound different from Boston Latin.

But whatever you pick, just stick with it. Pronounce "Dominus" the same way every time, for example. If you want the Collins method, fine. Just be consistent in using it.
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  #11  
Old Jul 16, '17, 5:19 am
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

I've noticed notable differences in pronunciation (accents?) between native French, Italian, German and English speakers.

From a choir perspective I find it works best if everyone is on the same page.

Also from a choir perspective, what is vital to sing Gregorian chant is correct accentuation, otherwise one does violence to both the text and the melody. Beyond that, differences will always exist.
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  #12  
Old Jul 17, '17, 6:28 am
Fuerza Fuerza is offline
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Default Re: Resources to learn Ecclesiastical Latin pronounciation

Sanctamissa.org has links to listen to the Latin pronunciation of the EF line by line. Linney's Latin also has free links to the ecclesiastical pronunciation of the lessons in his book. As a side note, he also offers a free self-paced class online. It is based on a different book (that can either be purchased through an outside source for about $15 or downloaded for free through google books) and focuses on Classical Latin, rather than EL, but it is a great resource for those who want to learn Latin without spending money.
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