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  #31  
Old Yesterday, 3:46 pm
Mammoths Mammoths is offline
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Join Date: February 17, 2015
Posts: 350
Religion: under construction ("bible only" is out) update: catholic?
Default Re: By what/who are we saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelFitz View Post
Mammoths #12
You wrote "it seems a bit speculative to say what God could have done".
I fully agree. I thought that is a point I made. But God is almighty, so he could do things differently from the way he did them.

Can we believe all are saved? I cannot see how God could create a person who will suffer in hell for all eternity.
As a Catholic as far as I can go is to acknowledge that it is not contrary to Catholicism to believe all may be saved. This idea was advocated by Hans Urs von Balthasar. But is is not within Catholicism to claim all are saved.
Anyone who will may be saved. We are not told all will--although the invitation is to all.

I am not sure this is Catholic but, I think of choice as being necessary for love. Without choice we could not fulfill the greatest commandment--to love God entirely. Thus in creating mankind with the capacity for rebellion, God makes himself vulnerable to man for the prize of being loved by man. Jesus told us hell was created for the devil and his angels--not for man. Hell is God's last option for those who refuse Him. It is not a careless or impulsive judgement on his part but a just one.
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⚠️ posts from this member may be corrupted by evangelicalism and not fully reflect the churches teachings. Please take exception with extreme prejudice. ⚠️ (the more you correct me the more I learn) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...26&version=DRA
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  #32  
Old Yesterday, 4:54 pm
fhansen fhansen is offline
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Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 9,249
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: By what/who are we saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammoths View Post
Anyone who will may be saved. We are not told all will--although the invitation is to all.

I am not sure this is Catholic but, I think of choice as being necessary for love. Without choice we could not fulfill the greatest commandment--to love God entirely. Thus in creating mankind with the capacity for rebellion, God makes himself vulnerable to man for the prize of being loved by man. Jesus told us hell was created for the devil and his angels--not for man. Hell is God's last option for those who refuse Him. It is not a careless or impulsive judgement on his part but a just one.
That's very Catholic. In Catholicism the will of man is always involved in some capacity. We cannot move ourselves to justice or obedience of God; we cannot say 'yes' without His help, and yet we can still always say 'no'.
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"This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfections." - Saint Augustine

"It is love alone that gives worth to all things." - St. Teresa of Avila
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  #33  
Old Yesterday, 7:28 pm
NoelFitz NoelFitz is offline
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Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 1,253
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: By what/who are we saved?

Roseeurekacross #15
Is Jesus our Saviour?
Do you imply we are saved by our own acceptance or by the faithfulness of Jesus and/or by keeping commandments and going to mass? Are these works we do?
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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  #34  
Old Yesterday, 7:34 pm
NoelFitz NoelFitz is offline
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Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 1,253
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: By what/who are we saved?

pacloc #16

I am not sure I agree fully with what you claim. For example you wrote "There is no punishment from God that does not have behind it the greatest love one could imagine."
How can suffering excruciating pains for all eternity without any hope of release show love?
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NoelFitz.
________________________________________ _________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
________________________________________ _________
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  #35  
Old Yesterday, 7:39 pm
NoelFitz NoelFitz is offline
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Join Date: May 20, 2007
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Default Re: By what/who are we saved?

Fhansen #18
Your post is uplifting, positive and encouraging. Sincerest thanks.
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NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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