Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Traditional Catholicism
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Jul 17, '17, 7:49 am
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertabelle View Post
The OP sounded positively panicked in his/her first post here. Reminding someone to slow down and breathe is not against charity. If it bothered you, well, it wasn't directed towards you and was in no way meant to be unkind or condescending or any of the other negative attributes you seem to be attaching to it.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we should ask our questions of Christ. We can also speak with our pastors.

These actions are quite different from going to a public board and posting how Pope Francis is failing in his God-given vocation.

Assuming that discussing his presumed failures among others who have no power to change anything will actually bring about change -- well, that does seem pointless to me.

Assuming that we know better than the parties actually responsible for leading the Church -- well yeah, that does seem kinda arrogant. Imagine all the details and relationships and private conversations taking place at the Vatican and among the Magisterium of which we know absolutely nothing! And we do not have any right whatsoever to knowledge of these intimate goings-on.

And speaking of pointless, I think I'll just out of this thread. I forgot just how combat-like these topics can get, and I certainly have better things to do with my day than endlessly argue about the Pope, or whether or not we should even be arguing about the Pope.

Praying for our Holy Mother Church and her leaders.

Praying for all of us sheep of the flock of Christ.
Yes, I've noticed how much time some people spend here...and that's fine. I've seen silly discussions along this line as people wonder about "thread count" and "post numbers". But there are certainly more constructive things that people can be doing than being combatitive and condescending as is so often seen in various posts.

There is a difference, as well, in telling someone to relax and being dramatic in their instruction as well as over-emphatic. We ALL have "God-given vocations". We ALL have responsibility to the Church. Questioning and asking for clarification is not wrong if done in love and charity. I think your "assumptions" concerning one's thoughts, motives, and questions, could, by your own definition, be considered "arrogant". As far as being combatitive, please review some of your other posts on other threads.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Jul 17, '17, 7:49 am
CatholicRaven CatholicRaven is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2012
Posts: 945
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

The response when we see what appears to be wrong or foolish, but have no real influence to discuss it with that person, is to pray for them. "Let go and let God."

If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we'd have nothing to complain about.

I'd say that also goes for people on CAF.
__________________
God bless,
--Amy


"Some pray to marry the man they love; my prayer will somewhat vary;
I humbly pray to Heaven above that I love the man I marry."
-Rose Starks


If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we'd have nothing to complain about.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Jul 17, '17, 8:04 am
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicRaven View Post
The response when we see what appears to be wrong or foolish, but have no real influence to discuss it with that person, is to pray for them. "Let go and let God."

If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we'd have nothing to complain about.

I'd say that also goes for people on CAF.
Absolutely!!! Pray for our Priests and "our religious half". But don't be afraid to ask questions in charity, and to ask for clarity. Do we have to assume that EVERYTHING done or said by a Priest (or others) is absolutely correct? We know that might not be necessarily wise. If we misunderstand a teaching, especially a teaching that goes against historical teaching, is it wrong to ask for clarification? After getting the clarification that is in allignment with Church teaching or the Catechism, then, I'm all for "Letting go and letting God". But, if someone is teaching against the Catechism or is not being clear in what they are teaching, I'm going to have a very hard time with "Letting it Go"--nor would I think that would be something that the Church would teach.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Jul 17, '17, 8:26 am
goout goout is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Posts: 2,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.

We are given gifts, vocations, tasks, etc...that are doable in the sight of God with His grace.

Demanding something (the perfection of others) beyond our scope of competence and influence takes our eyes off what God is asking us to do.

This is the work of the evil one.
__________________
If you want things to change, change YOU.
And let God handle his business.
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Jul 17, '17, 8:43 am
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by goout View Post
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.

We are given gifts, vocations, tasks, etc...that are doable in the sight of God with His grace.

Demanding something (the perfection of others) beyond our scope of competence and influence takes our eyes off what God is asking us to do.

This is the work of the evil one.
I'm not sure, exactly, what your post is pertaining to--especially in regard to this thread....but certainly, our Lord, in Matthew 5:48, had something to say about perfection.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Jul 17, '17, 10:13 am
goout goout is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Posts: 2,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Operalan View Post
I'm not sure, exactly, what your post is pertaining to--especially in regard to this thread....but certainly, our Lord, in Matthew 5:48, had something to say about perfection.
Matthew 5 is (you) be perfect as your Father is perfect.
Not get-hung-up-on-your-neighbors-perfection.

Big BIG difference.

It's very relevant to the OP.
__________________
If you want things to change, change YOU.
And let God handle his business.
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Jul 17, '17, 11:35 am
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by goout View Post
Matthew 5 is (you) be perfect as your Father is perfect.
Not get-hung-up-on-your-neighbors-perfection.

Big BIG difference.

It's very relevant to the OP.
I was replying from my own experience as it relates to the posts and thread. Was your post only meant for the original post? How would it relate to the person who first replied and the tone of his/her post? From looking at several other posts by that poster, it seems that charity in responses has been an issue in the past.

Pursueing perfection in our own lives, as it relates to Christ's teachings, sometimes means that we will clash with others (He even told us that would happen)---but that doesn't mean we should shirk our responsibility. And, if there are those who are behaving in error or against teaching, it is our responsibility to stand up for perfection as it has already been defined.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Jul 17, '17, 1:14 pm
goout goout is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Posts: 2,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Operalan View Post
I was replying from my own experience as it relates to the posts and thread. Was your post only meant for the original post? How would it relate to the person who first replied and the tone of his/her post? From looking at several other posts by that poster, it seems that charity in responses has been an issue in the past.

Pursueing perfection in our own lives, as it relates to Christ's teachings, sometimes means that we will clash with others (He even told us that would happen)---but that doesn't mean we should shirk our responsibility. And, if there are those who are behaving in error or against teaching, it is our responsibility to stand up for perfection as it has already been defined.
The Church is more durable than the imperfections of Christians.
Chasing after the perfection of others distracts us from what we are actually called to do by God.

That's why I said:
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
(a paraphrase of "the perfect is the enemy of the good")
__________________
If you want things to change, change YOU.
And let God handle his business.
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Jul 17, '17, 2:02 pm
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Its not about and should never be about individuals. It's about the Church--which is perfect, despite imperfect people in it. And if someone is trying to"change" something that IS perfect, then that person and the Church wouldn't be perfect. Perfection Is--anything less than that, isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Jul 17, '17, 2:21 pm
goout goout is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2016
Posts: 2,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Operalan View Post
Its not about and should never be about individuals. It's about the Church--which is perfect, despite imperfect people in it. And if someone is trying to"change" something that IS perfect, then that person and the Church wouldn't be perfect. Perfection Is--anything less than that, isn't.

Sorry. I am confused as to what exactly you are addressing. You are saying the OP is trying to change something that is already perfect?
__________________
If you want things to change, change YOU.
And let God handle his business.
The demand for perfection is the enemy of the doable.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Jul 17, '17, 2:24 pm
steve b steve b is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: June 27, 2004
Posts: 10,595
Religion: Cradle Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNames View Post

As maybe some of you know, I have a bad scrupulosity and even thinking this way about the top leadership of the Church feels very sinful for me.

The questions I have for you is the following:

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?
At any given time, just remember Satan is always sifting. He never gives up while we are on this side of eternity. If everyone around you lost their faith, would you still fight to maintain your faith till the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNanes
Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?
Pray for him always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNames

To conclude my message, I would like to say that this is not written as an impulse. I was sure that a thread like this already exists (it may, but I don't see it). For everyone, especially new Catholics or Catholics who are struggling with their faith. PLEASE do not be scandalized by my message. The Church was, is and always will be the Church of Christ and it will never be forsaken by God.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

May God bless His Holy Church, may Holy Spirit lead Pope Francis and all the Bishops!
May God bless us all!
Reading ahead in the book, Jesus wins

As long as people do things His way and NOT their way, they will be with Him at the end of this life. Problem is, most people insist on doing things their way. Hence Jesus saying, few find the narrow road, while everyone else is on the wide road to perdition
__________________
To doubt is the greatest insult to the Divinity.[St Padre Pio]
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Jul 17, '17, 3:16 pm
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by goout View Post

Sorry. I am confused as to what exactly you are addressing. You are saying the OP is trying to change something that is already perfect?
Quite the opposite. The original poster is concerned about people trying to change the church. And, in my opinion, he should be concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Jul 17, '17, 4:06 pm
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve b View Post
At any given time, just remember Satan is always sifting. He never gives up while we are on this side of eternity. If everyone around you lost their faith, would you still fight to maintain your faith till the end?



Pray for him always.



Reading ahead in the book, Jesus wins

As long as people do things His way and NOT their way, they will be with Him at the end of this life. Problem is, most people insist on doing things their way. Hence Jesus saying, few find the narrow road, while everyone else is on the wide road to perdition

Amen and Amen!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Jul 17, '17, 4:09 pm
Limoncello402 Limoncello402 is offline
Trial Membership
 
Join Date: July 17, 2017
Posts: 6
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

It is a bad time. But the Church has been through many bad times, many worse times. It helps to know history: I recommend it! It is shocking to read about some of the truly terrible, heretical, immoral medieval and renaissance popes and clergy. Dante, a faithful Catholic, captured the whole rotten state of the Church heirarchy of his day. As did Catherine of Siena in her Dialogues. When I teach these to today's students, they are truly shocked and scandalized. In fact, we've been in a long period of very holy popes in the 20th-21st century, many of whom are now saints. Whatever one thinks about Pope Francis, this remarkable stretch has been a great gift from God. Somehow, even when terrible popes and rotten heirarchy abounded, the Church survived. In short, as Padre Pio repeated, Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry! We don't know what God is doing in His quiet way in the background at the moment. It is not for us to know, and we need to be humble and joyful enough to Trust.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Jul 17, '17, 4:34 pm
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limoncello402 View Post
It is a bad time. But the Church has been through many bad times, many worse times. It helps to know history: I recommend it! It is shocking to read about some of the truly terrible, heretical, immoral medieval and renaissance popes and clergy. Dante, a faithful Catholic, captured the whole rotten state of the Church heirarchy of his day. As did Catherine of Siena in her Dialogues. When I teach these to today's students, they are truly shocked and scandalized. In fact, we've been in a long period of very holy popes in the 20th-21st century, many of whom are now saints. Whatever one thinks about Pope Francis, this remarkable stretch has been a great gift from God. Somehow, even when terrible popes and rotten heirarchy abounded, the Church survived. In short, as Padre Pio repeated, Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry! We don't know what God is doing in His quiet way in the background at the moment. It is not for us to know, and we need to be humble and joyful enough to Trust.
Completely different times call for different actions--but the Church needs to stay consistent and true to its teaching. And, if the people were more diligent and involved, perhaps those terrible times in history, when Popes and other leaders were not following Church teachings, would not have occurred.

Yes, Hope and Pray--and be watchful as well. A sheep can only follow the shepherd with eyes and ears open.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Traditional Catholicism

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
6631CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
6224Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: hazcompat
5193Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
4631Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4311Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
4055OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: Fischli
3293For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: GLam8833
3261Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Herculees
2828Let's Empty Purgatory 2
Last by: Tis Bearself
2449SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:52 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.