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  #136  
Old Apr 20, '17, 3:47 am
lmachine lmachine is online now
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by Tim_D View Post
Perhaps you should talk it over with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayer. When she was on the lower court she ruled that even though white firemen taking the captain's exam performed better than minorities, the minorities should still have first crack at the position since, well...you know...the minorities have always been discriminated against. She also said that as a Puerto Rican Woman, she has "insights" into the law and court cases that her male white counterparts do not. So much for Justice being blind.
As the circuit court Sotomayor was serving on was overruled your example confirms gracepoole's post. Since the different candidates weren't equally qualified affirmative action shouldn't have been applied in this case.
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  #137  
Old Apr 20, '17, 4:09 am
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

In my humble opinion, Georgetown is a private university and they can do anything they feel is correct regarding the past slave sale.

They had a prayer service and they are allotting some spaces and I think funds for those who are the descendants of a specific slave sale. I believe it was discussed on the forums previously, I can go find a link. There were parameters set up by the Vatican that were not honored by the order. They were not to separate families. They were to assure that the slaves would continue to practice their faith.

It's a private decision and doesn't concern me. I don't understand such strong sentiments against it.
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  #138  
Old Apr 20, '17, 4:23 am
lmachine lmachine is online now
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36 View Post
It's a private decision and doesn't concern me. I don't understand such strong sentiments against it.
According to some posters here these Jesuits don't actually care about slavery, the history of slavery, or the Georgetown Jesuits' historical involvement in the slave trade. These priests just want to fell good about themselves and how great they are and are just "virtue signaling" to the people around them about how great they are.
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  #139  
Old Apr 20, '17, 6:35 am
exnihilo exnihilo is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Absent the politically correct movement I am all for the university acknowledging the sins of the past, but with such a movement I am genuinely concerned that inside some parts of the Catholic church we have accepted a false modern religion which brings its own sins visited on people today..
I generally agree with this. Although it does raise questions of corporate or ancestral sin. We seem to decry the concept for most other people. So why does it only apply to White Christians?

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Originally Posted by jesucated View Post
"In a sense, all Jesuits in the United States are descendants of those Jesuits who made the decisions to hold slaves and in this case sell slaves. We don't look at it as their sin; we look at it as our sin."
Who knew the Jesuits believed in ancestral sin?

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Originally Posted by jesucated View Post
Slavery includes theft (of freedom and of identity) but goes far beyond. Slavery, particularly as it has been practiced in American history, involves kidnapping, the destruction of families, and the dissolution of communities. Is is an institution that relies on violence (physical, emotional, sexual, etc.) and on stripping people of the means of effective organization and resistance. It is also a system that redistributed to wealth and social capital in profound ways.
There was nothing particularly unique about US slavery. It wasn't even the most common slavery in the new world. Brazil took the most slaves and the sugar islands took much of the rest. The US territory only accounted for about six percent of the slave trade. It was a drop in the bucket. All slavery, including Roman, involved violence. All slave cultures oppressed slaves to avoid rebellion. Even in the US much of the harshest measures were only enacted after the Nat Turner Rebellion.
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  #140  
Old Apr 20, '17, 9:47 am
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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I generally agree with this. Although it does raise questions of corporate or ancestral sin. We seem to decry the concept for most other people. So why does it only apply to White Christians?
Because they are the low-hanging fruit and at the very bottom (straight white ones) of the left's ladder of perpetual victimhood.

Such things involve putting far left ideology first over the teachings of the Catholic Church. But, that doesn't stop people, of course.


Quote:
Who knew the Jesuits believed in ancestral sin?

Is this one of the reasons they've been in trouble with the Vatican?

Quote:
There was nothing particularly unique about US slavery. It wasn't even the most common slavery in the new world. Brazil took the most slaves and the sugar islands took much of the rest. The US territory only accounted for about six percent of the slave trade. It was a drop in the bucket. All slavery, including Roman, involved violence. All slave cultures oppressed slaves to avoid rebellion. Even in the US much of the harshest measures were only enacted after the Nat Turner Rebellion.
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  #141  
Old Apr 20, '17, 11:17 am
lmachine lmachine is online now
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
There was nothing particularly unique about US slavery. It wasn't even the most common slavery in the new world. Brazil took the most slaves and the sugar islands took much of the rest. The US territory only accounted for about six percent of the slave trade. It was a drop in the bucket.
Probably wasn't worth getting worked up about even at the time. Who cares about a drop in the bucket, right? Why'd we bother fighting a war over it anyways?
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  #142  
Old Apr 20, '17, 11:42 am
exnihilo exnihilo is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Probably wasn't worth getting worked up about even at the time. Who cares about a drop in the bucket, right? Why'd we bother fighting a war over it anyways?
One ought to care about it but also have proper perspective on it. It wasn't a particularly American institution. Also although slavery was part of the regional differences no one fought to free slaves. That is a noble myth read back into history, despite the evidence, to justify preventing political independence. If Americans cared so much about freeing slaves they should have continued the fight and freed the poor Brazilian slaves who weren't freed until 1888.
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  #143  
Old Apr 20, '17, 2:47 pm
jesucated jesucated is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
One ought to care about it but also have proper perspective on it. It wasn't a particularly American institution. Also although slavery was part of the regional differences no one fought to free slaves. That is a noble myth read back into history, despite the evidence, to justify preventing political independence. If Americans cared so much about freeing slaves they should have continued the fight and freed the poor Brazilian slaves who weren't freed until 1888.
While it's an important point to note that the civil war was not just motivated by issues surrounding slavery, to say that "no one fought to free slaves" is equally inaccurate.

For a thoughtful look at the ways in which the abolitionist movement played a role in the civil war you can read David Reynolds book on John Brown. https://books.google.com/books?id=Ch...gbs_navlinks_s
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  #144  
Old Apr 20, '17, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
One ought to care about it but also have proper perspective on it. It wasn't a particularly American institution. Also although slavery was part of the regional differences no one fought to free slaves. That is a noble myth read back into history, despite the evidence, to justify preventing political independence. If Americans cared so much about freeing slaves they should have continued the fight and freed the poor Brazilian slaves who weren't freed until 1888.
Very informative posts!
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  #145  
Old Apr 20, '17, 2:51 pm
jesucated jesucated is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
I generally agree with this. Although it does raise questions of corporate or ancestral sin. We seem to decry the concept for most other people. So why does it only apply to White Christians?



Who knew the Jesuits believed in ancestral sin?



There was nothing particularly unique about US slavery. It wasn't even the most common slavery in the new world. Brazil took the most slaves and the sugar islands took much of the rest. The US territory only accounted for about six percent of the slave trade. It was a drop in the bucket. All slavery, including Roman, involved violence. All slave cultures oppressed slaves to avoid rebellion. Even in the US much of the harshest measures were only enacted after the Nat Turner Rebellion.
First, there are massive differences between slavery in antiquity and the form of slavery that grew up in the new world.

Second, the reason for speaking about slavery in the US specifically was to constrain our concerns to the institution of slavery that was directly relevant to Georgetown.
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  #146  
Old Apr 20, '17, 3:16 pm
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Sarcelle Sarcelle is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by Monte RCMS View Post
[How about stories about Muslim tribal leaders who sold those slaves to the African tribal leaders who sold those slaves to the Europeans?]


[How about stories about the North African Corsairs who captured Irish white people and made them slaves who were then sold to the Muslim tribal leaders who sold those slaves to the African tribal leaders who sold those slaves to the Europeans?]


[Visit Amazon and buy the books about the Corsair and Muslim white slave trade.]


[Milliions of whites became slaves. (slavs?)]


There are even Web sites dedicated to the millions of white people who were captured and taken into slavery.

https://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm
Well, the North African Corsairs and the Muslim tribal leaders are free to repent of their past slave trading ways.

However, what does this have to do with Georgetown?
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  #147  
Old Apr 21, '17, 9:08 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

Nothing except to show slavery is universal. The north African corsairs by their nature don't really exist in any form that could render an apology any more. I am never sure of the value of such apologies mind you, some years ago Tony Blair when PM of the UK apologized to Irish people for the poor govt and resulting horrors that caused during the Great Hunger in Ireland. The fact he recognized it was welcome but he was not in charge and not even alive and ultimately the gesture while recognizing a past horror was empty and accomplished little. At best it might be seen as justifiable as Blair represented a govt. and not just himself and therefore could be seen as a spokesman for a nation and acknowledging a past wrong.

This talk of virtue signalling and buzz words of the kind are becoming irksome however. These are not college kids on Facebook we are talking of and it might be nice to restrain ourselves a little bit with this kind of extreme rhetoric whether our own politics veer to the left or right.
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  #148  
Old Apr 21, '17, 10:52 am
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/g...s#.WPpGPoEpCEd

Good article on the subject.
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  #149  
Old Apr 22, '17, 7:55 am
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Michael68 Michael68 is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Picking the scab off incessantly does not for healing make. Any CNN stories about the vast majority of slave traders who were Protestant? How about stories about African tribal leaders who sold those slaves to the Europeans? Didn't think so.
Good Point!
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  #150  
Old Apr 22, '17, 8:04 am
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: In emotional service, Jesuits and Georgetown repent for slave trading

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Originally Posted by Thorolfr View Post
Georgetown as an institution can still try to make amends for unjust actions taken in its name in the past. As a result, the descendants of the slaves that were sold by Georgetown will now have preferential status in being admitted as students to the university.
That is, provided those descendants meet the academic qualifications for admittance, I hope. That is how affirmative action is supposed to be run. Otherwise, I pity those who are admitted as they are likely to drop out, as well as their professors, who already have their hands full with some students who are probably not qualified to be there or not motivated enough.
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