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  #16  
Old Jan 18, '17, 12:57 pm
Todd977 Todd977 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by mVitus View Post
2: Do Jews pray to saints? Would a Jewish person ask Elijah to pray for them for example?
According to the Wikipedia article on "Intercession of saints," some Jews, such as Chasidic Jews, do/would and some Jews, such as Orthodox Jews, do not/would not.
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  #17  
Old Jan 21, '17, 8:59 am
HowkeCotchmeEye HowkeCotchmeEye is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by Todd977 View Post
According to the Wikipedia article on "Intercession of saints," some Jews, such as Chasidic Jews, do/would and some Jews, such as Orthodox Jews, do not/would not.
A Chasidic Jew is an Orthodox Jew.

Think of it like: Christian > Catholic > Dominican

Jewish > Orthodox > Chasidic

That's not perfect, of course (I know a lot of Catholics would say there is no distinction between Christian and Catholic because Catholicism IS the Christian church, etc etc.) but that's the best I can do!
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  #18  
Old Jan 21, '17, 5:29 pm
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
It's important to remember that we don't consider people disadvantaged by not being Jews (it's certainly not what the concept of 'chosen people' is about), a Christian or Muslim has as much hope for the 'World to Come' as we have and nobody is doomed for not wanting to be a Jew. We don't share Christian concepts of 'original sin' and 'salvation'.

Since we don't think people are doomed for not being Jewish, there's no equivalent to the Christian or Muslim belief in a need for others to 'accept Christ' or 'accept Islam.'



No.
Just curious do you ask others to pray for you, in this life I mean?
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  #19  
Old Jan 21, '17, 9:00 pm
HowkeCotchmeEye HowkeCotchmeEye is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Just curious do you ask others to pray for you, in this life I mean?
Not the person you were asking, but I wanted to share this piece from the Judaism 101 website:
Most of our prayers are expressed in the first person plural, "us" instead of "me," and are recited on behalf of all of the Jewish people. This form of prayer emphasizes our responsibility for one another and our interlinked fates.

In Judaism, prayer is largely a group activity rather than an individual activity. Although it is permissible to pray alone and it fulfills the obligation to pray, you should generally make every effort to pray with a group, short of violating a commandment to do so.
I'm sure that some Jews do ask others to pray for them, but I think usually they're praying in a group, as a whole.
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  #20  
Old Jan 24, '17, 4:30 pm
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by HowkeCotchmeEye View Post
Not the person you were asking, but I wanted to share this piece from the Judaism 101 website:
Most of our prayers are expressed in the first person plural, "us" instead of "me," and are recited on behalf of all of the Jewish people. This form of prayer emphasizes our responsibility for one another and our interlinked fates.

In Judaism, prayer is largely a group activity rather than an individual activity. Although it is permissible to pray alone and it fulfills the obligation to pray, you should generally make every effort to pray with a group, short of violating a commandment to do so.
I'm sure that some Jews do ask others to pray for them, but I think usually they're praying in a group, as a whole.
Thanks
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  #21  
Old Jan 25, '17, 11:44 am
Todd977 Todd977 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by HowkeCotchmeEye View Post
A Chasidic Jew is an Orthodox Jew.

Think of it like: Christian > Catholic > Dominican

Jewish > Orthodox > Chasidic

That's not perfect, of course (I know a lot of Catholics would say there is no distinction between Christian and Catholic because Catholicism IS the Christian church, etc etc.) but that's the best I can do!
Thank you for the info. I'm, obviously, not familiar with the various divisions, beliefs and practices within Judaism. I know we can't trust everything we read on the Internet but, if the Wikipedia article I linked to is correct and there is a difference of opinion and practice concerning the intercession of the saints between Chasidic Judaism and what the article refers to as "Orthodox" Judaism, then perhaps by "Orthodox" Judaism the author of the article meant "Modern Orthodoxy" a.k.a. "Modern Orthodox Judaism." I don't know.
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  #22  
Old Jan 28, '17, 6:56 am
psalm90 psalm90 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

One of the more dynamic Jewish-Catholic speakers I've heard is Roy Shoeman ("showman"). Look him up on youtube for various of his conversion stories. He became Catholic but did not cease being Jewish. He has some very insightful comments to make about Romans 11, for example.

There's a book I never read anybody refer to in these forums, The Jewish Annotated New Testament, which is a Jewish commentary on the New Testament.

someplace in there, it makes the point that 1) there were Jewish-Christians and 2) that they never were required by Paul to give up their Jewish practices. Now, for Gentiles, Paul is certainly adamant that they not be circumcised or practice Jewish customs, but not for native Jewish-Christians. (This is the best that I recall from a footnote on this subject.)

The preceding comments in this thread demonstrate something that seems to be important in the New Testament about that issue, Gentiles not following Jewish practices and customs: others previously, especially our Jewish commenters, have pointed out that you don't have to "become" Jewish to be saved. That, in a nutshell, is why Paul says so in the NT. In fact, what one previous comment said was, if you truly wanted to become Jewish, you'd have to follow ALL the Jewish laws in the Torah.

Prayer to the saints is embedded and layered over virtually all of Catholicism, but strictly speaking, I don't ever recall being taught that I MUST pray to Mary or any saint. Intercessory prayer is described in the NT and we do pray for others. I think the saints do pray for us, I'm not sure that we have to pray to them to have their intercession. Enjoying the beatific vision as they do, I'm sure their stray moments would be filled with praying that all in this life would be blessed to enjoy it.

The Catholic Church teaches we are bound, for example, by the Ten Commandments, but one of the previous posts mentions that we (mostly) Gentile Christians -- to Judaism -- are NOT required to obey any of those commandments, only the Noahide covenant. The Catholic Church invokes Tradition to sort out which of the Torah commands we are to obey and which we are not so required to obey. This distinction is not so clear in the Catholic Church as it is in Judaism. Then, too, it is Talmudic interpretation which tells us what the Noahide code is, to begin with. It doesn't pop out at you from the Jewish Scriptures.
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LORD, thou have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
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  #23  
Old Jan 28, '17, 7:09 am
psalm90 psalm90 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

Judaism seems inherently to be a non-"evangelistic" religions simply for geographical reasons -- the whole world cannot come to Jerusalem three times a year for the prescribed feast. So -- it seems to me -- Judaism was intended and destined by God to be enhanced or transformed into Christianity (as it says in Joel, "a new covenant" ) (see Roy Shoeman on this for elaboration) as the universal religion. And THAT (or THIS) is the evangelistic religion to which all should come, even, eventually (romans 11) the Jews.
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LORD, thou have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
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  #24  
Old Jan 28, '17, 7:36 am
psalm90 psalm90 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

(I hope I'm still on topic) Lastly, we DON'T live just by the Noahide code or covenant. Jesus gave us a new command, to love each other as He has loved us.
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LORD, thou have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
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  #25  
Old Feb 4, '17, 8:54 am
jas84173 jas84173 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

Judaism is kind of like Zoroastrianism as it is an ethnoreligious group. Conversion is not pushed because Jewish people tend to believe everyone can be saved but they have some sort of special bond with God that others need not to burden themselves. Conversion is possible but you have to go to them and they really question you as to why you want to be Jewish and what your true motives are. Christianity and Islam have always been religions who have tried to convert people mainly because they basically tell followers to go proclaim the 'truth" of their beliefs. Judaism just has different view. A true follower of Judaism has to follow many laws in the Torah, whereas Jewish people believe other believers of faiths different can find God but only have to follow the ten commandments so it's actually easier to not be Jewish. There is some debate however, especially with regards to Zoroastrianism which has a dwindling population. Some estimates say there are only 200,000 in the world. They have never been a faith to allow conversions but are born into it and has led to a debate within the religion in recent years whether conversion should be allowed.
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  #26  
Old Jun 20, '17, 6:33 pm
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Peter J Peter J is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by ltwin View Post
As I understand it, the closest thing in Judaism to a saint in the Catholic sense are the hasidim. According to this Haaretz article, Jews don't pray to saints, but they may pray at their graves.
Not to belabor the point, but I'd like to piggy back on this discussion and ask (for anyone who is Jewish or just knowledgable about Judaism): would it make any difference if the question was do Jews talk to saints?
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  #27  
Old Yesterday, 12:56 pm
drblank1 drblank1 is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by psalm90 View Post
Judaism seems inherently to be a non-"evangelistic" religions simply for geographical reasons -- the whole world cannot come to Jerusalem three times a year for the prescribed feast. So -- it seems to me -- Judaism was intended and destined by God to be enhanced or transformed into Christianity (as it says in Joel, "a new covenant" ) (see Roy Shoeman on this for elaboration) as the universal religion. And THAT (or THIS) is the evangelistic religion to which all should come, even, eventually (romans 11) the Jews.
Coming from my information technology background, I have always consider Christianity to be Judaism 2.0.

From personal experience, there is an exclusivity to the Jewish people as well. I tried to date a Jewish girl once and her parents said no because I was not Jewish.

From my perspective as a Christian, they are still God's chosen people and I hold them in high regard.
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  #28  
Old Yesterday, 3:22 pm
LtTony LtTony is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
It's important to remember that we don't consider people disadvantaged by not being Jews (it's certainly not what the concept of 'chosen people' is about), a Christian or Muslim has as much hope for the 'World to Come' as we have and nobody is doomed for not wanting to be a Jew. We don't share Christian concepts of 'original sin' and 'salvation'.

Since we don't think people are doomed for not being Jewish, there's no equivalent to the Christian or Muslim belief in a need for others to 'accept Christ' or 'accept Islam.'


Do Jews believe in Heaven? Hell? Satan?
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  #29  
Old Yesterday, 3:53 pm
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brishen brishen is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
It's important to remember that we don't consider people disadvantaged by not being Jews (it's certainly not what the concept of 'chosen people' is about), a Christian or Muslim has as much hope for the 'World to Come' as we have and nobody is doomed for not wanting to be a Jew. We don't share Christian concepts of 'original sin' and 'salvation'.

Since we don't think people are doomed for not being Jewish, there's no equivalent to the Christian or Muslim belief in a need for others to 'accept Christ' or 'accept Islam.'



No.
One thing I definitely miss about Judaism...
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  #30  
Old Today, 12:12 am
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: Two Jewish Questions

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Originally Posted by LtTony View Post
Do Jews believe in Heaven? Hell? Satan?
Discussion of most issues in Judaism has a tendency to: "Well, on the one hand, while on the other hand, meanwhile on yet another hand . . ." so the answer to each aspect of your question is "sort of but it depends on what you mean by . . . . and that's not the important thing."

So, while belief in an afterlife (World to Come) is part of Judaism, it isn't a focus of Jewish life - we do what we do because that's what we do (living ethical monotheism). Hell isn't a place of eternal anything and Satan isn't a kind of extremely naughty anti-God.
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