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  #46  
Old May 19, '17, 7:18 pm
worldwideweary worldwideweary is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

Although this may sound off topic, it isn't (take it as a friendly reminder).
Remember John's words:
Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it has not yet appeared what we shall be.
We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.
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  #47  
Old May 19, '17, 7:21 pm
GEddie GEddie is online now
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Originally Posted by worldwideweary View Post
Although this may sound off topic, it isn't (take it as a friendly reminder).
Remember John's words:
Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it has not yet appeared what we shall be.
We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.
But still a human body.

ICXC NIKA
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  #48  
Old May 19, '17, 7:55 pm
worldwideweary worldwideweary is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

To say "human body" doesn't seem to clarify the intellect regarding the nature of a glorified body, but it's hard to say otherwise.
Obviously Airstotle isn't authoritative here, but St. Thomas references him as "The Philosopher" many times. He states:

“There exists, therefore, an operation of the soul which so far exceeds the corporeal nature that it is not even performed by
any corporeal organ; and such is the operation of the ‘rational soul.'” (Q. 78, Art. 1)

I quote this because it seems becoming of a glorified body to be more simple than the body in its current status. This is just conjecture, but it may be the case that the human glorified body will be so unified with the intellect/will that the dichotomy will cease to be the case as it is generally understood. Of course this doesn't really help clarify anything either.
I wish not to derail the thread, so I'll leave it be for now.
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  #49  
Old May 20, '17, 5:41 am
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Bonus



"At Easter we rejoice because Christ did not remain in the tomb, his body did not see corruption; he belongs to the world of the living, not to the world of the dead; we rejoice because he is the Alpha and also the Omega, as we proclaim in the rite of the Paschal Candle; he lives not only yesterday, but today and for eternity (cf. Heb 13:8).

But somehow the Resurrection is situated so far beyond our horizon, so far outside all our experience that, returning to ourselves, we find ourselves continuing the argument of the disciples: Of what exactly does this "rising" consist? What does it mean for us, for the whole world and the whole of history? A German theologian once said ironically that the miracle of a corpse returning to life - if it really happened, which he did not actually believe - would be ultimately irrelevant precisely because it would not concern us. In fact, if it were simply that somebody was once brought back to life, and no more than that, in what way should this concern us? But the point is that Christ’s Resurrection is something more, something different. If we may borrow the language of the theory of evolution, it is the greatest "mutation", absolutely the most crucial leap into a totally new dimension that there has ever been in the long history of life and its development: a leap into a completely new order which does concern us, and concerns the whole of history."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedic...-pasquale.html

Not a return to normal bodily life - our body will be transformed -though remain of course our body as that of Jesus did....

A spiritual body - not as our body is now.

Truly though a body - not "a spirit" ...not like a ghost etc.

Glorified!

Not "flesh" in the other sense of the word -referring to corruptable and mortal. (see the first part of CCC 990)

(remember the word "flesh" gets used in various senses in Scripture...it can be rather confusing....if one does realize this. Paul means very particular senses.)

But yes glorifed flesh in the sense of his glorifed body.

Rather - imperishable, glorified and with power ....

Wonderfully so!
I like your answer. I just have one last question...if someone were to believe that Jesus is now in a glorified spiritual body, would they be considered an Unorthodox Catholic? How important is it? I have read that about one-fourth of Catholics are doctrinally conservative. Many priests and members tend to accept liberal, pluralist beliefs contrary to church teaching.
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  #50  
Old May 20, '17, 8:57 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Originally Posted by notforgotten View Post
I like your answer. I just have one last question...if someone were to believe that Jesus is now in a glorified spiritual body, would they be considered an Unorthodox Catholic? How important is it? I have read that about one-fourth of Catholics are doctrinally conservative. Many priests and members tend to accept liberal, pluralist beliefs contrary to church teaching.
Your welcome. I think part of your difficulty is the variant meanings of certain words and mistaking what is meant or not meant with this or that teaching or Scripture.

To answer your further question:

One must profess what the Church Professes -not something else contrary (that would be to embrace error and depart from orthodoxy). Tis very important.

And the Resurrection is at the very heart of the Faith.

So what I have noted above from the Catechism is what we are to believe and profess (for it is the truth...)

Conservative is a political term -not so much a theological one.

We are to Profess the Catholic Faith (fully!).

Priests or Laity who knowingly depart from the Churches teachings -are doing just that - departing from the Churches Teachings - not professing and living the Faith fully. Which is not good....

Let us joyfully give our complete "Yes!".

In Jesus Christ the Risen Lord and thus in his Church - is true life.
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Last edited by Bookcat; May 20, '17 at 9:10 am.
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  #51  
Old May 20, '17, 10:08 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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I .
PS a side note. I mentioned the Catechism in the last post so I need to say a bit more about it and theology. In the Catechism there are different kinds of teachings (see introduction etchttp://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/aposcons.htm ) -so some things have more weight than others or are of a different sort etc- so I do not want to give an impression otherwise. But it is a "sure norm" for Teaching the Catholic Faith. One too will have all sorts of varied "theological opinions and schools of thought" within "orthodox Catholic Theology" - faithful to the Church.

Returning to the Resurrection though- it is very central to the Christian life and Faith. Jesus is Risen and remains with his Risen Glorified body (see the Catechism, the Gospels, Acts, St. Paul, St. Johns Letter, Creeds etc). And we too will have a glorified body like his.
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  #52  
Old May 20, '17, 10:16 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Originally Posted by notforgotten View Post
if someone were to believe that Jesus is now in a glorified spiritual body, would they be considered an Unorthodox Catholic?
(The phrase "in" a body I would say not be putting it right. (for example I am not "in" my body - I am my body and soul) (but I will set that aside for now))

If one means the that Jesus has the same glorified flesh - the same glorified body that he rose with at Easter - and ascended with?

If by "glorified spiritual body" -one means what the Church Teaches (with the Scriptures) - well is that not professing the Faith??

Not sure here your question.

Catechism:

1017 "We believe in the true resurrection of this flesh that we now possess" (Council of Lyons II: DS 854). We sow a corruptible body in the tomb, but he raises up an incorruptible body, a "spiritual body" (cf. 1 Cor 15:42-44).

999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself"; but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":

But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel. . . . What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . The dead will be raised imperishable. . . . For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a11.htm#999
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Last edited by Bookcat; May 20, '17 at 10:31 am.
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  #53  
Old May 20, '17, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
(The phrase "in" a body I would say not be putting it right. (for example I am not "in" my body - I am my body and soul) (but I will set that aside for now))

If one means the that Jesus has the same glorified flesh - the same glorified body that he rose with at Easter - and ascended with?

If by "glorified spiritual body" -one means what the Church Teaches (with the Scriptures) - well is that not professing the Faith??

Not sure here your question.

Catechism:

1017 "We believe in the true resurrection of this flesh that we now possess" (Council of Lyons II: DS 854). We sow a corruptible body in the tomb, but he raises up an incorruptible body, a "spiritual body" (cf. 1 Cor 15:42-44).

999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself"; but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":

But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel. . . . What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . The dead will be raised imperishable. . . . For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a11.htm#999
Here, doctrine suggests that I am within the parameters of Church teaching, saying that Jesus is now in a "glorified spiritual body."

999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself"; but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":
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  #54  
Old May 20, '17, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

I took the time to read the thread again. Jesus and Mother Mary have ascended both in spirit and flesh, in a glorified body. They remain to this day in the same glorified body. I understand. I want to thank all those who participated in this thread. You were a great help .
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  #55  
Old May 21, '17, 1:19 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Here, doctrine suggests that I am within the parameters of Church teaching, saying that Jesus is now in a "glorified spiritual body."

999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself"; but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":
As I noted:

"If by "glorified spiritual body" -one means what the Church Teaches (with the Scriptures) - well is that not professing the Faith??"

....................

Yes if one understands that phrase the way the Scriptures and thus the Church understand them (setting aside the word "in" there for the body is not something we are "in" but is part of us.)


Christs body and thus what our body will be - is not like his body prior to his Crucifixion - not as our body is now. It will be a glorified body. (a spiritual body in the sense meant by Paul and the Teachings of the Church--which does not mean "a spirit").
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  #56  
Old May 21, '17, 1:21 pm
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Default Re: What does the Catholic Church teach about Jesus's glorified body?

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Originally Posted by notforgotten View Post
I took the time to read the thread again. Jesus and Mother Mary have ascended both in spirit and flesh, in a glorified body. They remain to this day in the same glorified body. I understand. I want to thank all those who participated in this thread. You were a great help .
Great! Glad we could help.

Reading a few times those sections of the Catechism on this subject too can even further help the subject be understood deeper.

It is a splendid topic and a splendid reality!
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