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  #16  
Old Jun 17, '17, 12:48 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Gabriel View Post
I realize that but unfortunately it's all too common among "converts" to Eastern Catholicism. I've read numerous posts and blogs over the years describing similar feelings to how I feel and I also know a few people IRL who feel the same way. A lot have gone completely Orthodox and a few have gone back to the Latin Church. I know a few very content Eastern Catholics as well. So my experience certainly isn't universal but it is common nonetheless.
Just as Catholics are asked

why are you Catholic?

maybe it needs to be asked of Eastern Catholics

why are you Eastern Catholic
?

If one can't answer the question, substantively, then that tells me education is sorely lacking and in extension sorely needed
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  #17  
Old Jun 17, '17, 2:03 pm
SyroMalankara SyroMalankara is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve b View Post
Just as Catholics are asked

why are you Catholic?

maybe it needs to be asked of Eastern Catholics

why are you Eastern Catholic
?

If one can't answer the question, substantively, then that tells me education is sorely lacking and in extension sorely needed
Huh? Why are "Catholics" and "Eastern Catholics" separated here -- if "Catholics" are asked, then logically "Catholics" includes "Eastern Catholics".

Part of the reason why Eastern Catholics are pretty annoyed with Latins is questioning/commentary like this.
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  #18  
Old Jun 17, '17, 2:13 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyroMalankara View Post
Huh? Why are "Catholics" and "Eastern Catholics" separated here -- if "Catholics" are asked, then logically "Catholics" includes "Eastern Catholics".

Part of the reason why Eastern Catholics are pretty annoyed with Latins is questioning/commentary like this.
I agree, but

Did I make the separation in identification? No

For example

Why is there an Eastern Catholic Canon Law and a Western Canon Law?
Why not Catholic Canon law period? Who insisted on an Eastern Catholic Canon?

I answered a specific point staying within the language of the poster. . #16
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Last edited by steve b; Jun 17, '17 at 2:25 pm.
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  #19  
Old Jun 17, '17, 2:35 pm
SyroMalankara SyroMalankara is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve b View Post
I agree, but

Did I make the separation in identification? No

For example

Why is there an Eastern Catholic Canon Law and a Western Canon Law?

Why not Catholic Canon law period? Who insisted on an Eastern Catholic Canon?

I answered a specific point staying within the language of the poster. . #16
The poster wrote "Latin" and "Eastern" not "Catholic" and 'Eastern Catholic', as does the Code of Canons and every other legitimate document.
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  #20  
Old Jun 17, '17, 3:06 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyroMalankara View Post
The poster wrote "Latin" and "Eastern" not "Catholic" and 'Eastern Catholic', as does the Code of Canons and every other legitimate document.
The poster made a distinction

"converts" to Eastern Catholicism. I've read numerous posts and blogs over the years describing similar feelings to how I feel and I also know a few people IRL who feel the same way. A lot have gone completely Orthodox and a few have gone back to the Latin Church."


Re: canon law

CCEO (
Code of canons of Oriental Churchs ) http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG1199.HTM

So one knows (by the title) it's a Catholic Church canon spoken of

Read canons 43,
49, 597, 599 for example

I don't make these distinctions.
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  #21  
Old Jun 17, '17, 3:44 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyroMalankara View Post
The poster wrote "Latin" and "Eastern" not "Catholic" and 'Eastern Catholic', as does the Code of Canons and every other legitimate document.
An easier link to Eastern Canon law than the one I previously posted

http://www.jgray.org/codes/cceo90eng.html

Word searches can be done easily. "Pontiff" for example appears 120 times
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  #22  
Old Jun 17, '17, 3:49 pm
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Angel Gabriel Angel Gabriel is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

My apologies if I came off as confusing in my terminology. I grouped all Eastern Catholics together instead of naming them separately. Granted I only have experience with the UGCC and a little with the Ruthenian.

And I stand by what I said before...the Eastern Catholic churches are merely existing at this point...I don't think they are growing at all. There may be specific parishes which are thriving but overall they don't get many converts...mostly disgruntled Latins or Latins curious about the East(Byzantine) who are too afraid to look into Orthodoxy. Eastern Catholicism is akin to having your cake and eating it too...reality is quite different for some of us.
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  #23  
Old Jun 17, '17, 5:08 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Gabriel View Post
My apologies if I came off as confusing in my terminology.
I was ok with how you said it. I knew where you were going

Quote:
Originally Posted by A


I grouped all Eastern Catholics together instead of naming them separately. Granted I only have experience with the UGCC and a little with the Ruthenian.

And I stand by what I said before...the Eastern Catholic churches are merely existing at this point...I don't think they are growing at all.
Why do you think they are not growing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A


There may be specific parishes which are thriving but overall they don't get many converts...mostly disgruntled Latins or Latins curious about the East(Byzantine) who are too afraid to look into Orthodoxy.
Re: that direction

Orthodox = schism, therefore, ≠ orthodox

Schism has always been a condemned direction from the beginning.

Can you imagine Jesus allowing any apostle to leave Peter after He gave Peter a new name, said He would build His Church on Peter, the keys to the kingdom of God went to Peter, and Jesus told Him to feed and rule Our Lord's Church? It goes without saying, the apostles were to give their allegiance to Jesus plan.

There was an argument however, by the apostles over this. Jesus settled their argument

for space, here's a link describing what happened [ #4 ]
So we know the answer. We don;t have to guess.

as an aside, we hear 1st among equals by the Orthodox when it comes to Peter against the authority we know Jesus gave Peter.

An Orthodox priest I used to converse with said this about 1st among equals [#129 ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by A
Eastern Catholicism is akin to having your cake and eating it too...reality is quite different for some of us.
then I have to ask, why isn't it growing? Why are parishes stagnant?
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  #24  
Old Jun 17, '17, 5:37 pm
SyroMalankara SyroMalankara is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Gabriel View Post
My apologies if I came off as confusing in my terminology. I grouped all Eastern Catholics together instead of naming them separately. Granted I only have experience with the UGCC and a little with the Ruthenian.

And I stand by what I said before...the Eastern Catholic churches are merely existing at this point...I don't think they are growing at all. There may be specific parishes which are thriving but overall they don't get many converts...mostly disgruntled Latins or Latins curious about the East(Byzantine) who are too afraid to look into Orthodoxy. Eastern Catholicism is akin to having your cake and eating it too...reality is quite different for some of us.
You must mean within the US. The Ukrainian, Syro-Malabar, Malankara Syrian Churches are growing worldwide, as are Chaldeans, Melkites, . There are annual stats released by Rome on each diocese/eparchy worldwide.

http://www.cnewa.org/source-images/R...olic-pie15.pdf


Yearly stats are here:
http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID...e=jer&pageno=1
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  #25  
Old Jun 17, '17, 6:33 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyroMalankara View Post
You must mean within the US. The Ukrainian, Syro-Malabar, Malankara Syrian Churches are growing worldwide, as are Chaldeans, Melkites, . There are annual stats released by Rome on each diocese/eparchy worldwide.

http://www.cnewa.org/source-images/R...olic-pie15.pdf


Yearly stats are here:
http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID...e=jer&pageno=1
Thanks for those numbers
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  #26  
Old Jun 18, '17, 5:45 am
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Angel Gabriel Angel Gabriel is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve b View Post
I was ok with how you said it. I knew where you were going



Why do you think they are not growing?


Re: that direction

Orthodox = schism, therefore, ≠ orthodox

Schism has always been a condemned direction from the beginning.

Can you imagine Jesus allowing any apostle to leave Peter after He gave Peter a new name, said He would build His Church on Peter, the keys to the kingdom of God went to Peter, and Jesus told Him to feed and rule Our Lord's Church? It goes without saying, the apostles were to give their allegiance to Jesus plan.

There was an argument however, by the apostles over this. Jesus settled their argument

for space, here's a link describing what happened [ #4 ]
So we know the answer. We don;t have to guess.

as an aside, we hear 1st among equals by the Orthodox when it comes to Peter against the authority we know Jesus gave Peter.

An Orthodox priest I used to converse with said this about 1st among equals [#129 ]


then I have to ask, why isn't it growing? Why are parishes stagnant?
Yes I was referring to the growth in the US.

Truly I don't know why they aren't growing. They are tiny and several parishes/missions that I know of are only surviving because of the influx of former Latins. So I guess my question is how can we grow and NOT rely on Latins? I'm not biased against them...I used to be one and there are things about the Roman rite that I miss, a lot of it cultural.

I think a lot of people who end up going to Eastern Catholicism eventually move on to Orthodoxy. There were several posters on CAF that did that eventually. There's a sort of spirtual schizophrenia in Eastern Catholicism...trying to unite the various dogmas and doctrines of both East and West is a difficult thing to do and I don't think all of us can understand and make sense of it. At least I don't think we can understand it enough to be at peace with it. I know I'm struggling and I know others who struggled with it as well.

With a few exceptions (Melkites mainly) there are a ridiculous amount of latinizations in the various Eastern Churches. I was interested in authentic Byzantine spirituality and I'm not finding that here...which of course is sad and I have been struggling with what I should do and where I should go for a few years now. My situation is rather complicated and I'm still not sure where I'll end up. In retrospect I think I should have just stayed Latin and made the best of things but I was drawn Eastward and it was hard to resist the pull. What's done is done and I can't go back but I do hope to be at peace spiritually soon.

FWIW I think the Bishop of Rome should be the final authority to go to if there is a dispute...he shouldn't barge in. So yeah I have issues with some of the papal claims but again I have no problem praying for the Pope of Rome and would continue to do so even if I became Orthodox. May God bless him in his mission!

ETA: People tend to either convert to the Latin Church or to the Orthodox Churches...not a lot from Protestantism or other faiths to the Eastern Catholic Churches although I do know of a few people. So again, the question is why? I think that most protestants would go Orthodox b/c of the Pope issues or would go Latin b/c of the similar traditions.
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  #27  
Old Jun 18, '17, 9:55 am
spina1953 spina1953 is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

In a couple of earlier posts it seemed that while there is a difference in the various Rites of the Catholic Church and the understanding thereof, in the end we are all Catholic's no matter which Rite one belongs to. I see more an lack of education and understanding between Western and Eastern Rite Catholic's; the Dogmas's in how it is understood, this on top of doctrines that evolve as a way of trying to understand what it is we believe..

I see no earthly reason for any of the Eastern Rites to be Latinized now do I see Eastern Rites incorporated into the Latin Rite. Each has its own beauty and its spirituality in expressing our love of God through Christ and the Holy Spirit. it also seems to me that there is more in common between the Eastern and Latin Rites then what is not. It also seems to me that each has its particular way of expressing that belief we profess. While it id fair to ask what we do not understand about a particular Rite, its unfair to criticize one Rite over another. But this is my opinion as a Catholic in the Latin Rite.
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  #28  
Old Jun 18, '17, 4:39 pm
Expatreprocedit Expatreprocedit is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

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Originally Posted by prodromos View Post
There are only three theologians in the Orthodox Church, St John the Theologian, St Gregory (Nazianzus) the Theologian an St Symeon the New Theologian. To which of these are you referring?
Ok, sorry brother, but that's a little persnickety, isn't it? I took the poster as referring to "theologians" in the generic sense, not theologians the Church has given the title "Theologian" to.

To address the OP's point, there is a little bit of diversity among Orthodox "theologians" with regard to the eternal relationship between the Son and the Spirit, but I am not aware of any Orthodox theologian of any repute who does not agree that the Spirit proceeds *eternally* from the Father alone, or the from the Father *through* the Son, but *not* from the Father and the Son "equally" and in one "action" as defined in the post-schism western councils.
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  #29  
Old Jun 18, '17, 9:53 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

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Originally Posted by Expatreprocedit View Post
Ok, sorry brother, but that's a little persnickety, isn't it? I took the poster as referring to "theologians" in the generic sense, not theologians the Church has given the title "Theologian" to.

To address the OP's point, there is a little bit of diversity among Orthodox "theologians" with regard to the eternal relationship between the Son and the Spirit, but I am not aware of any Orthodox theologian of any repute who does not agree that the Spirit proceeds *eternally* from the Father alone, or the from the Father *through* the Son, but *not* from the Father and the Son "equally" and in one "action" as defined in the post-schism western councils.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/how-do-w...eration-of-the
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  #30  
Old Jun 18, '17, 10:14 pm
Expatreprocedit Expatreprocedit is offline
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Default Re: What is the difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

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That has nothing to do with what I posted.
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