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  #31  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:03 am
Reuben J's Avatar
Reuben J Reuben J is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Peterson View Post
What is it with conservatives and blaming the victims? Just last week we heard how the rhetoric from the left caused the shooting at the baseball field (which is certainty possible). Yet all of the anti-Muslim rhetoric isn't blamed a bit for the violence against Muslims? It's their fault for being Muslim? I think many here should be ashamed of themselves.

A 17 year old Muslim girl was killed with a baseball bat yesterday in Virginia. They didn't determine motive as of this morning but the guy stopped a group of girls who were going for breakfast after late night prayer. The other girls got away.

This is a problem unless you choose to blind yourself.
Apparently you are musing because you are not answering to any posts here.
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  #32  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:16 am
J_Peterson J_Peterson is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by Reuben J View Post
Apparently you are musing because you are not answering to any posts here.
This is a weird thread and this is a weird response.

There's not much to respond to other than the victim blaming and I did that. I don't understand the eyeroll.
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  #33  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:19 am
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Reuben J Reuben J is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by J_Peterson View Post
This is a weird thread and this is a weird response.

There's not much to respond to other than the victim blaming and I did that. I don't understand the eyeroll.
So who is victim blaming? Because I do not see any posts saying that. Admittedly I might have missed them, if there were.
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  #34  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:31 am
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by starshiptrooper:
The correct answer would have been preventing them from entering the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrodingersCat View Post
London / the UK has a huge Muslim population, many of whom have grandparents or great grandparents who immigrated to the UK because of British collonisation. They are as British as anyone else.
Perhaps the trooper meant that had the people what is now Pakistan, etc., had better resisted the British and prevented them from entering their lands, then this problem would not have occurred. But this, or any solution that involves changing the past is not really helpful for anything.
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  #35  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:40 am
randomuser randomuser is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Peterson View Post
What is it with conservatives and blaming the victims? Just last week we heard how the rhetoric from the left caused the shooting at the baseball field (which is certainty possible). Yet all of the anti-Muslim rhetoric isn't blamed a bit for the violence against Muslims? It's their fault for being Muslim? I think many here should be ashamed of themselves.

A 17 year old Muslim girl was killed with a baseball bat yesterday in Virginia. They didn't determine motive as of this morning but the guy stopped a group of girls who were going for breakfast after late night prayer. The other girls got away.

This is a problem unless you choose to blind yourself.
^^ this.
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  #36  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:46 am
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abucs abucs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Peterson View Post
What is it with conservatives and blaming the victims? Just last week we heard how the rhetoric from the left caused the shooting at the baseball field (which is certainty possible). Yet all of the anti-Muslim rhetoric isn't blamed a bit for the violence against Muslims? It's their fault for being Muslim? I think many here should be ashamed of themselves.

A 17 year old Muslim girl was killed with a baseball bat yesterday in Virginia. They didn't determine motive as of this morning but the guy stopped a group of girls who were going for breakfast after late night prayer. The other girls got away.

This is a problem unless you choose to blind yourself.
This is the problem I have with the Left who I honestly think are brainwashed. No one is blaming these victims for being attacked and yet this is what too many people hear, or want to hear .

In the same way when Jihadists kill people without mercy yelling out God is great and then people naturally say there is something wrong with Islam and a problem with mass migration from Muslim countries then somehow Leftists hear - all Muslims are bad.

I think such brainwashing is to get people to divert from questioning the real problems and run to an imagined a high moral ground even if that means pretending to hear what was not said.

There can be no conversation with people pretending to hear what was not said.

Former Left wing adviser to Tony Blair on immigration policy aims.

Former Left wing minister on immigration policy aims.

Please listen to who people are blaming before running to the pretended and self constructed high moral ground.

Last edited by abucs; Jun 19, '17 at 6:57 am.
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  #37  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:49 am
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DeniseNY DeniseNY is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by abucs View Post
This is the problem I have with the Left who I honestly think are brainwashed. No one is blaming these victims for being attacked and yet this is what too many people hear, or want to hear .

In the same way when Jihadists kill people without mercy yelling out God is great and then people naturally say there is something wrong with Islam and a problem with mass migration from Muslim countries then somehow Leftists hear - all Muslims are bad.

I think such brainwashing is to get people to divert from questioning the real problems and run to an imagined a high moral ground even if that means pretending to hear what was not said.

There can be no conversation with people pretending to hear what was not said.


And those are the ones who should be ashamed
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  #38  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:52 am
randomuser randomuser is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by DeniseNY View Post

And those are the ones who should be ashamed
So are you saying Paul Ryan, et al, have all condemned the terrorist attack on the mosque like they condemned the terrorist attack on the ballpark? There is definitely a double standard in the reaction, and nothing to be ashamed about for simply pointing that out.
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  #39  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:09 am
Lou2U Lou2U is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by abucs View Post
This is the problem I have with the Left who I honestly think are brainwashed. No one is blaming these victims for being attacked and yet this is what too many people hear, or want to hear .

In the same way when Jihadists kill people without mercy yelling out God is great and then people naturally say there is something wrong with Islam and a problem with mass migration from Muslim countries then somehow Leftists hear - all Muslims are bad.

I think such brainwashing is to get people to divert from questioning the real problems and run to an imagined a high moral ground even if that means pretending to hear what was not said.

There can be no conversation with people pretending to hear what was not said.

Former Left wing adviser to Tony Blair on immigration policy aims.

Former Left wing minister on immigration policy aims.

Please listen to who people are blaming before running to the pretended and self constructed high moral ground.
You seem to be missing the part where this attack was targeted deliberately at Muslims. I'm not saying that there are problems with immigration, and I do think we need to be much more careful about checking the backgrounds of those who want to enter the country. However, this attack was not done by someone radicalised abroad and coming into the UK. It was done by a white British national, who killed without mercy but you won't hear anyone say that there is "naturally a problem" with them. So how would immigration policies help here?

Lou
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  #40  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:11 am
jesucated jesucated is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Once again a CAF thread about a horrific attack on innocent people is rife with blame, vitriol, and pettiness. I can only imagine how those seeking to understand our faith must see us when they encounter threads like this one.

We can be better than this–we must be better than this.
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  #41  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:20 am
ProdglArchitect ProdglArchitect is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

This is terrible. No matter how much of an issue you may have with the Islamic faith, attacking innocent people is never justifiable.

Prayers for the victim as well as the perpetrator. May they find healing, and may learn not to hate like that.
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  #42  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:22 am
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abucs abucs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by Lou2U View Post
You seem to be missing the part where this attack was targeted deliberately at Muslims. I'm not saying that there are problems with immigration, and I do think we need to be much more careful about checking the backgrounds of those who want to enter the country. However, this attack was not done by someone radicalised abroad and coming into the UK. It was done by a white British national, who killed without mercy but you won't hear anyone say that there is "naturally a problem" with them. So how would immigration policies help here?

Lou
What people are saying is that when you bring in mass migration from certain foreign areas as a deliberate policy (especially from Muslim lands at the moment) there is a massive problem where the violence that makes the news is just the tip of the ice-berg.

It doesn't matter which way the violence goes, it is all bad and the result of bad policy in the name of a false compassion that is obviously killing people.

Yes, if it is as reported then the guy attacking the Muslim crowd is obviously without any caveats whatsoever completely wrong and there is a problem. What is the problem? Where does it originally trace to?

Saying simply. 'oh you shouldn't hold anything against Muslims', then some Muslim attacks white Britons and the response is 'Oh you shouldn't hold anything against western people etc etc' repeat ad infinitum is superficial and not addressing the policy failure of why this is happening.

As I said, i spent the last month in Japan and am always impressed with it. It is peaceful, respectful and the Japanese culture is not getting attacked from within or from without. But then they don't have left wing Progressives there whose policies put Japanese in danger. There are no terrorist attacks on Japanese and thus there are no reprisals. Their community is not polarised or paralysed or under strain or being economically drained by endless moral posturing and bad immigration policy because they have not made the same mistakes as the $%^$##E politicians in the west who roll out their left wing moralising to absolve themselves from this mess.

Last edited by abucs; Jun 19, '17 at 7:34 am.
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  #43  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:28 am
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abucs abucs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by jesucated View Post
Once again a CAF thread about a horrific attack on innocent people is rife with blame, vitriol, and pettiness. I can only imagine how those seeking to understand our faith must see us when they encounter threads like this one.

We can be better than this–we must be better than this.
We start by stopping the support for immigration policies that cause violence to real people in the name of a false compassion.

Looking the other way from recognising the violent results of such false compassion is not moral.
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  #44  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:29 am
friardchips friardchips is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by Reuben J View Post
I agree whole heartedly. I didn't mean to justify the attack, thus saying it is unfortunate. It nevertheless shouldn't be taken as condoning another terrorist attack, which is a terrorist attack, regardless of who is attacking.

I am sorry if I seem to support the van driver. Far from it. It would be a disservice to my thought if I should come out supporting any terrorist attack, which is my fundamental position that no terrorist attack that kill innocent lives should be justified, as all lives are precious and gifts from God.
I understand. On the same page. Thank you for clarifying.

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  #45  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:31 am
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by abucs View Post
This is the problem I have with the Left who I honestly think are brainwashed. No one is blaming these victims for being attacked and yet this is what too many people hear, or want to hear .
Quote:
The correct answer would have been preventing them from entering the country.
The answer to violence against Muslims is to have prevented them from being there.
How is this not blaming the victims?
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