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  #16  
Old Apr 14, '05, 6:19 am
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Annunciata Annunciata is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevalier
So much as I would attach a latae sententiae excommunication to child molestation by priests and remove them permanently from any work with children, I don't know what Cardinal Law's reasons really were. Fact is, Cardinal Law took it all on himself when it came to settling the account. Depriving him of all good that's left to his name wouldn't be about justice but more about satisfying the outraged people's desires. Who knows what's in his heart? He's probably a better Christian than many of us here. He has taken the blame and apologised. Should he now feel sorry because he's alive yet? He has his church now, one church, and let's leave him here. It's not like he's going to become the Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy.

And, except Holy Mary and a couple of those who never committed a mortal sin, all saints have been sinners. Some great saints were great sinners, as well. His life is not over yet, nor did it start the abuse took place.
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  #17  
Old Apr 14, '05, 6:22 am
LoneRanger LoneRanger is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

If John Paul II was about anything, he was about forgiveness....


I see little evidence of that practice sometime...

Cardinal Law admitted his mistake and apologized. If God forgives him, who are we to harden our hearts?

IMO
  #18  
Old Apr 14, '05, 6:27 am
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

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Originally Posted by LoneRanger
If John Paul II was about anything, he was about forgiveness....


I see little evidence of that practice sometime...

Cardinal Law admitted his mistake and apologized. If God forgives him, who are we to harden our hearts?

IMO
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  #19  
Old Apr 14, '05, 6:39 am
La Chiara La Chiara is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

People who have an (unforgiving) opinion about Cardinal Law don't seem to understand that this is the Catholic Church, this is not a democracy, they ain't the Pope, and nobody cares about their opinion. What do they hope to gain by constantly repeating their unforgiving--nay, hateful and unChristian--point-of-view? To those who are unable to let it go, PLEASE read the New Testament, pray, and use your energy to do something positive for your parish, community, or world. May God bless you and help you find peace.
  #20  
Old Apr 14, '05, 6:47 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Chiara
People who have an (unforgiving) opinion about Cardinal Law don't seem to understand that this is the Catholic Church, this is not a democracy, they ain't the Pope, and nobody cares about their opinion. What do they hope to gain by constantly repeating their unforgiving--nay, hateful and unChristian--point-of-view? To those who are unable to let it go, PLEASE read the New Testament, pray, and use your energy to do something positive for your parish, community, or world. May God bless you and help you find peace.
I agree
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  #21  
Old Apr 14, '05, 7:11 am
bogeyjlg bogeyjlg is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

I will not judge. He may have screwed up royally with the sex abuse fiasco. But I cannot state the current state of his soul and even if I had Padre Pio's gift and I could see his soul, I still would not judge. Leave that to GOD.

To be technical, he is stil here on earth therefore he isn't in heaven and therefore not a saint. (Of course that means neither of us are too).
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  #22  
Old Apr 14, '05, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Here's what Father Corapi said about the sex abuse scandal, "If you don't think they should be forgiven, then don't pray the our father anymore."
  #23  
Old Apr 14, '05, 11:34 am
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

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Originally Posted by bones_IV
Here's what Father Corapi said about the sex abuse scandal, "If you don't think they should be forgiven, then don't pray the our father anymore."
  #24  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:01 pm
Petrus Romanus Petrus Romanus is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

There is no forgiveness without restitution and justice.

Appointing Lawy such a high profile position of honour was unjust, period.

Not only to the victims, but to the image of the Holy Catholic Church.

That is the problem with the modern world, we can do whatever we want with no hard consequences.

The clergy, instead of being held to a higher level of accountability, were held to no standard whatsoever for decades.

This is the crux of the matter, and in our Lord's eyes this man should have been reprimaded.

"It is better for a man, to tie a millstone around his neck and be thrown into the sea, than to harm one of these little ones".

"I have chosen all of you, yet one of you is a devil".

Our Lord is not some touchy feely new age god. He is the Just Judge, and hates iniquity.

Fr. Goeghan was allowed, under the cover of the Apostolic Authority of Cardinal Law to destroy hundreds young faithful souls (one of the sins which cries out to heaven for justice by the way).

A Bishop no less, enabling this to take place is a capital sin of no equal in the eyes of God.

For he allows the very Bride of Christ to become a defiler and image of Satan himself to the world.

Just think of the millions of souls turned off the Catholic faith, FOREVER in North America and the world, on account of evil and incompetant men like Law?

Law definitely did not get his just punishment from the Church's authorities.

This is a total sham and makes a mockery of Catholic ethics and morality.
  #25  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:04 pm
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Angry Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Before this thread closes, I have add my worth here.

I agree with most of the poster regarding Cardinal Law and that even though he may have grossly mishandled the situation in Boston, he is definitely entitled to forgiveness, pay the price and move on. I do see that happening (with Cardinal Law), but groups like SNAP appears to not want this to happen.

While I do believe that abuse happened, I am truly getting the impression that some of the alleged abuses (especially here in Cincinnati) may be driven by money (personally I have seen 2 wonderful priests being falsely accused here and are suspended. They need our prayers that their names can be cleared).

SNAP currently is lobbying in Ohio State house and Senate to change the statue of limitations for claims of abuses. And from my understanding, can go further and get more money out of the Archdiocese.

Forgiveness is the core of Christianity and for those who do not want to forgive, but continue to judge others, need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror and reflect.

Today's society seems to embrace victimization (if that is the correct word) and instead of moving on with our lives and being more productive, society tends to want us bring it to the surface, thus causing more pain and suffering to ourselves. This is just my own opinion here.

Sorry if I am being lengthy or wordy. I hope I am making sense here.

PAX
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  #26  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:09 pm
Petrus Romanus Petrus Romanus is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

According to Catholic theology, there is no forgiveness possible without restitution.


Where had Cardinal Law made restitution for his stupidity and gross neglect of his solemn duty before God to shepherd souls?

We are not speaking of a private citizen, but a successor to the Apostles, renouncing his fundamental duty before God to tend his sheep.

These young men were destroyed by Catholic priest perverts, being moved from one feeding ground to another under cover of the Church's good name, and the people's implicit trust in their shepherd.

In any other age, Law would have been totally defrocked, and banned from any position of authority whatsoever.

In our age, cooperating in a secular crime against children, CATHOLIC CHILDREN, our own people signed by Christ, gets one a plumb, cushy job at the Vatican??

This is a total perversion of all that is just and right.

Christ Himself, will judge this evil in the Church, and it will not be nice to look at.
  #27  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:12 pm
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Quote:
In any other age, Law would have been totally defrocked, and banned from any position of authority whatsoever.
Churchmen have done much worse than that.
  #28  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:19 pm
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

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Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
Lisa: You and I always get along quite well, but I'm afraid I must humbly and respectfully disagree. Should Cardinal Law be forgiven?
Absolutely! Should he be in a visible role in the Church? I think not.
What can he do? Retire to a hidden place, such as a monastery or a convent chaplaincy. He would still be able to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the appex of priestly life. Did the Pope ask me what I thought? No. Do I trust the Holy Father? Yes. But as often as the question is asked, I'm going to respond that I think he should retire to a quiet place.
I think this sum's up my own position, as well. It has nothing to do, at this point, with forgiveness. It has to do with understanding that we expect more from our teachers and leaders. I think we do a dis-service to behave as if the sins never took place and permit him to remain in a position of authority and relative prestige. It could be argued that people such as him (the ones who covered up) are as guilty as the abusers, because they chose to take the easy road and look the other way. The consequence of failing to be a leader in a time such as this is that the Church has suffered injury, and we've given enemies of the church wonderful amunition. Forgiveness is one thing, but that doesn't mean we ignore the ramifications of his poor leadership on the Church community. Imagine it for a moment... How would you have felt if someone close to you had fallen victim to one of these predatory priests? This extends beyond a single lapse in judgement to me and straight to the core of man's heart of darkeness.
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  #29  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:35 pm
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Chiara
People who have an (unforgiving) opinion about Cardinal Law don't seem to understand that this is the Catholic Church, this is not a democracy, they ain't the Pope, and nobody cares about their opinion. Then discusssion forums such as this are moot. What do they hope to gain by constantly repeating their unforgiving--nay, hateful and unChristian--point-of-view? NAY? Ahem....I challenge thee, forsooth (since we're being so formal) to show how any poster to this thread has either been hateful or unChristian. To those who are unable to let it go, PLEASE read the New Testament, pray, and use your energy to do something positive for your parish, community, or world. May God bless you and help you find peace.
My reading of the New Testament includes admonitions to not give or cause scandal. I don't think anyone is denying Cardinal Law forgiveness/absolution/redeemption. Heck, we're not even denying him the rich robe and the ring for his finger, a al the Prodigal Son. I think we're just saying he should not, for the sake of the Church and of the victims, have an overtly visible role. He should VOLUNTARILY abstain from presenting himself at ceremonies and from voting in the conclave. Cardinal Sin had to do so due to illness, there's nothing wrong with it.
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  #30  
Old Apr 14, '05, 12:40 pm
Benedictus Benedictus is offline
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Default Re: Cardinal Law, Saint or Sinner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Writer
I think this sum's up my own position, as well. It has nothing to do, at this point, with forgiveness.
I completely agree. Forgiveness doesn't mean we can pretend nothing happened. If forgiving Cardinal Law means that he should still get to play a high-profile role in the Church, then forgiving the pervert priests means everyone here should hire one as a baby sitter.
 

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