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  #16  
Old Jan 9, '13, 2:45 pm
Mrs Sally Mrs Sally is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by PaulinVA View Post
To stay on topic - I found the line of thought intriguing that perhaps, due to indoctrination from an early age, the SSPX priests are not culpable for believing and advancing the idea of supplied jurisdiction because of a "crisis". which the Vatican says doesn't exist.
This is a very interesting idea. Scary too, because it acknowledges that the Society is an isolated, insular group. It also says to me that they aren't drawing in many new people. Their growth is based on family growth of those people who "defected" in the 70s. Their priests are children of the original group who have had very little interaction with the larger world.

That wouldn't be an issue of discussion at all except that something has to explain how, 40 some odd years later they can maintain that there is still a 'crisis' but the rest of us somehow keep going along without being vaporized by the wrath of the Holy Spirit.
  #17  
Old Jan 9, '13, 2:49 pm
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Faithdancer Faithdancer is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
A big thanks to Br JR. Who may not be as right as he thinks he is but is one of the only reasons the thread or topic is even allowed to continue! Thanks Br JR, you bring civility and common sense to the forum.
Yes, and I love the way you worked in a little dig with your compliment, lol! But how did it work out for Br. JR to get the very last word in on the first thread? I suspect collusion...
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  #18  
Old Jan 9, '13, 4:53 pm
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Mrs Sally View Post
This is a very interesting idea. Scary too, because it acknowledges that the Society is an isolated, insular group. It also says to me that they aren't drawing in many new people. Their growth is based on family growth of those people who "defected" in the 70s. Their priests are children of the original group who have had very little interaction with the larger world.

That wouldn't be an issue of discussion at all except that something has to explain how, 40 some odd years later they can maintain that there is still a 'crisis' but the rest of us somehow keep going along without being vaporized by the wrath of the Holy Spirit.
I'm not sure your growth assertions are true. Do you have a source? As far as I can tell, there are many Catholics becoming comfortable with the SSPX all the time, as sour as that might be becoming.
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  #19  
Old Jan 9, '13, 4:59 pm
Mrs Sally Mrs Sally is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by YoungTradCath View Post
I'm not sure your growth assertions are true. Do you have a source? As far as I can tell, there are many Catholics becoming comfortable with the SSPX all the time, as sour as that might be becoming.
Really?? I have no idea at all. There is no SSPX chapel or community around here. I am only going on what I have heards second hand which is that families are large and encourage vocations and that young men often enter the SSPX college seminaries right out of high school. People seem to be quite proud of this and in general I agree that large families that encourage vocations is a good thing. But it would tend to make the group increasingly isolated, even if it was growing in numbers.

I don't hear too much about people joining SSPX as adults. I did used to hear that quite a bit about the Legionaries of Christ.

If you have a diffierent experience, I am perfectly ready to believe you.
  #20  
Old Jan 9, '13, 5:21 pm
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Mrs Sally View Post
Really?? I have no idea at all. There is no SSPX chapel or community around here. I am only going on what I have heards second hand which is that families are large and encourage vocations and that young men often enter the SSPX college seminaries right out of high school. People seem to be quite proud of this and in general I agree that large families that encourage vocations is a good thing. But it would tend to make the group increasingly isolated, even if it was growing in numbers.

I don't hear too much about people joining SSPX as adults. I did used to hear that quite a bit about the Legionaries of Christ.

If you have a diffierent experience, I am perfectly ready to believe you.
I mean, I don't have stats, but I do hear of people on the blogosphere and forumosphere becoming affiliated, yes.
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  #21  
Old Jan 9, '13, 7:20 pm
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Melchior_ View Post
It's less that they need to come home, it's more that they need to take their shoes off and come inside or leave the house so we can stop letting the cold air in. Standing in the shoe foyer isn't doing anyone any good.
I love the analogy. Can I borrow it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
A big thanks to Br JR. Who may not be as right as he thinks he is but is one of the only reasons the thread or topic is even allowed to continue! Thanks Br JR, you bring civility and common sense to the forum.
What do you mean, "may not be as right as he thinks he is?" I'll have you know that I'm only responsible for what I say, not for how others hear it.

Civility? Ask the brothers in my congregation if their superior general is civil? The last description I heard about me was, "He's a hard donkey, but in the end, he's always right." You'll have to replace donkey with another word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Sally View Post
Great analogy! And along with the cold air, we may be letting in a few too many flies.

Based on Br. JR's last post and the recent statements of Bishop Fellay, it seems that the SSPX is intent on playing a game of legalistic hide and seek to keep their "in, but out" status as long as possible. We may need to get used to that blast of cold air from the foyer.
Remember, I did not accuse them of this. I simply said that I know understand why the SSPX says, "We told them such and such" and the Vatican says "We're still waiting for an official response." This was driving me batty wondering how people on the same planet, who have sat in the same room for two years, could be making such contradictory statements. I wanted to believe that neither side is lying. Now I get it. Neither side is lying. But they're not on the same page either.

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Originally Posted by Faithdancer View Post
Yes congratulations everyone! 1000 posts on a thread about SSPX is cause for hoopla! (Perhaps our friends in the Society should take our cue)

And thanks a million to Mr. Thomas Casey for his patience and forbearance. He only had to knock heads a couple of times, as I recall, and I had no idea he was watching us that closely.

And btw, whenever Br. JR gets crotchety, it helps to give him a virtual treat, like ice cream or a warm brandy.
"CROTCHETY" What is this? Pick on Brother night. I don't get crotchety. I may get a little frustrated at times and sometimes I wish I knew how to smack someone via TCP; but I never get crotchety.

By the way, make it brandy. I can't do ice cream. I'm diabetic. A double brandy, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithdancer View Post
Yes, and I love the way you worked in a little dig with your compliment, lol! But how did it work out for Br. JR to get the very last word in on the first thread? I suspect collusion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTradCath View Post
I'm not sure your growth assertions are true. Do you have a source? As far as I can tell, there are many Catholics becoming comfortable with the SSPX all the time, as sour as that might be becoming.
I get the impression that they are not growing as much as they like us to think. They may be growing in some places, but not across the board. For example, in our diocese they have one chapel. This is a diocese of about one million Catholics. I've been to mass there twice. They don't have more than 150 people in a predominantly Catholic neighborhood. There are five Catholic parishes around them each with 5 to 7 masses per weekend There are two Catholic high schools and three Catholic elementary schools in their area. These schools are full.

I'm not sure if I would call what they do indoctrination either. Indoctrination has a sinister sound. It usually serves the purposes and desires of a human leader. I do think that they are very similar to Protestants. However, my take from the local parish that they have and from the many people on the Internet is that they attract a lot of converts from Protestantism. There is that language and that dogmatic rigidity that is so typical a Protestants newly received into Catholicism. I call it the "APS" (Anonymous Protestant Syndrome). With time, it passes.

I see that intensity in the way that they speak and in some things they say. The young men who enter their seminary are either born into their culture or are born into other cultures: mainstream Catholic or Protestant, but are of the same manner of thinking, very rigid and at times very defiant.

This is one of the differences that I see between a Bishop Williamson (RIP) and Fr. Hans Kung. Bishop W is defiant. He'll stand up there and make statements that include people by name, including people who have a right to command his respect, whether he agrees with them or not. This last speech by Bishop Fellay is approaching the Bishop W style. He still has a ways to go and I hope that he does not go that far.

People like Father Kung don't have that Protestant approach. When he and others in his school of thought dissent, they disagree with something, but they throw out an alternative. In addition, they don't go looking for a following or preach to the masses. They write articles and books, teach classes at universities, give lectures when invited, but it's an academic environment. The Kungs in the Catholic Church don't bother with the man in the pews. That's not their intended audience.

The Protestant style of rebellion is to move the people in the pews to align themselves with you. I've seen that every time there is a split within a congregation. That's how you seem to get the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Christian Church of Happyville. It's not just stating a point. There is a campaign involved. The Kungs don't campaign. That's just not the cradle Catholic style.

Those are my two cents.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
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  #22  
Old Jan 9, '13, 7:25 pm
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Faithdancer View Post
Yes, and I love the way you worked in a little dig with your compliment, lol!
Love is not the word that I would use. Talk about a backhanded compliment.

Quote:
But how did it work out for Br. JR to get the very last word in on the first thread? I suspect collusion...
That's easy. Ask and you shall receive. This is actually true. I was responding when I noticed that we had gone past 1,000. I know that 1,000 is the limit. I'm surprised the we got past it. Anyway, I'm good friend with Bl. John Paul. I said an ejaculation to Bl. John Paul and typed as quickly as my little fingers could go.

Bl. John Paul has never let me down. I'm working on getting another miracle from him.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
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Helping hannds . . .
  #23  
Old Jan 9, '13, 7:37 pm
maltmom maltmom is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by Faithdancer View Post
But how did it work out for Br. JR to get the very last word in on the first thread? I suspect collusion...
They saved the best for last!!!
  #24  
Old Jan 9, '13, 7:59 pm
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triumphguy triumphguy is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
...

This is one of the differences that I see between a Bishop Williamson (RIP) and Fr. Hans Kung. Bishop W is defiant. He'll stand up there and make statements that include people by name, including people who have a right to command his respect, whether he agrees with them or not. This last speech by Bishop Fellay is approaching the Bishop W style. He still has a ways to go and I hope that he does not go that far.

People like Father Kung don't have that Protestant approach. When he and others in his school of thought dissent, they disagree with something, but they throw out an alternative. In addition, they don't go looking for a following or preach to the masses. They write articles and books, teach classes at universities, give lectures when invited, but it's an academic environment. The Kungs in the Catholic Church don't bother with the man in the pews. That's not their intended audience.

The Protestant style of rebellion is to move the people in the pews to align themselves with you. I've seen that every time there is a split within a congregation. That's how you seem to get the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Christian Church of Happyville. It's not just stating a point. There is a campaign involved. The Kungs don't campaign. That's just not the cradle Catholic style.

Those are my two cents.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
Is he dead?
  #25  
Old Jan 9, '13, 8:13 pm
chero23 chero23 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

Since this post is about the SSPX and the possibility of them uniting with the Catholic Church. Do you see other big religions or denominations doing so too? We constantly here of dialogues between the church and the Orthodox Church. That would be 2, SSPX and the Orthodox Church. I have also seen by the news that come out of the Middle East especially Egypt, that the Coptic Christian church is having a hard time against Muslims. Does anybody see them having dialogues with the Vatican to be reinstated back in the church after almost 1500 yrs?
  #26  
Old Jan 9, '13, 8:22 pm
jeannetherese jeannetherese is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post


That's easy. Ask and you shall receive. This is actually true. I was responding when I noticed that we had gone past 1,000. I know that 1,000 is the limit. I'm surprised the we got past it. Anyway, I'm good friend with Bl. John Paul. I said an ejaculation to Bl. John Paul and typed as quickly as my little fingers could go.

Bl. John Paul has never let me down. I'm working on getting another miracle from him.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
Hey Brother JR, Next time you are praying for a miracle, maybe you could ante up the request a bit?
  #27  
Old Jan 9, '13, 8:22 pm
Melchior_ Melchior_ is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
I love the analogy. Can I borrow it?
Of course you can borrow it

Quote:
Originally Posted by chero23 View Post
Since this post is about the SSPX and the possibility of them uniting with the Catholic Church. Do you see other big religions or denominations doing so too? We constantly here of dialogues between the church and the Orthodox Church. That would be 2, SSPX and the Orthodox Church. I have also seen by the news that come out of the Middle East especially Egypt, that the Coptic Christian church is having a hard time against Muslims. Does anybody see them having dialogues with the Vatican to be reinstated back in the church after almost 1500 yrs?
The Anglicans have come back. What I find interesting is the style of how the Anglicans have come back, in the sense it very closely resembles how the Eastern Churches have come back. The Anglicans retain their customs and 99% of their liturgy.
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  #28  
Old Jan 9, '13, 8:28 pm
chero23 chero23 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Of course you can borrow it



The Anglicans have come back. What I find interesting is the style of how the Anglicans have come back, in the sense it very closely resembles how the Eastern Churches have come back. The Anglicans retain their customs and 99% of their liturgy.
But the Anglicans are coming back in waves right? Not the entire church?
  #29  
Old Jan 9, '13, 8:40 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post


What do you mean, "may not be as right as he thinks he is?" I'll have you know that I'm only responsible for what I say, not for how others hear it.

Civility? Ask the brothers in my congregation if their superior general is civil? The last description I heard about me was, "He's a hard donkey, but in the end, he's always right." You'll have to replace donkey with another word.




Br. JR, FFV
Ya just couldn't help yourself could ya. You had to point out that you are right.......
  #30  
Old Jan 9, '13, 9:48 pm
Melchior_ Melchior_ is offline
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Default Re: SSPX Update - Redux

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But the Anglicans are coming back in waves right? Not the entire church?
True, not the entire church, however it does show that the odds are good a similar structure will be set up for others. Historical precedent and all of that.

The difference for the SSPX, again, is that they are Catholic within the Latin (Western) Rite. The fact they have been offered any provisions like a post-Vatican II prelature is a bonus, when the reality is that they could be commanded to come back or face schism. Ironically if they want any special treatment, they'll receive it via post-Vatican II items like a prelature or Society of Apostolic Life.

That there is dialogue at all shows the true charitable nature of Pope Benedict XVI.
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