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  #46  
Old Mar 15, '13, 5:27 pm
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Lormar Lormar is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Quote:
But hey, at least we know the so called prophecies of the Popes aren't real.
My husband was very disappointed to find that out. He put great stock in those prophecies.
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  #47  
Old Mar 15, '13, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

I will tell you what I told my brothers last night. Of course, you folks don't owe me obedience. But I think I had something worth saying. I told the brothers

"The pope is not our property. We must not try to own him.

The pope is a person and deserves the same respect as any other person.

The pope has a right to freedom. Any attitude, any wish, any desire that imposes our will, our desires, our wishes on his person is a violation of his right to freedom. We do not violate another person's right to freedom, anymore than we want our freedom violated.

The pope binds and unbinds. We do not. Whatever he chooses to bind and unbind, is is up to us to adapt, not him.

His Holiness is a Jesuit. He is not a secular pope as have been all of our popes this past 100 years. He's a regular priest. He has a right to live out his Jesuit vocation, even as pope. Canon Law and theology protect this right. It is we who must get used to the Jesuit way of doing things.

His Holiness has a spirituality, ecclesiology and and worldview that are his own. We have no right to invade that or expect that he accommodate to our own. A servant is not the same as property.

Finally, the Holy Father is not a lab rat that should be put under observation by us. He is a human being with dignity and should be respected as such."
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  #48  
Old Mar 15, '13, 7:28 pm
zab zab is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
I will tell you what I told my brothers last night. Of course, you folks don't owe me obedience. But I think I had something worth saying. I told the brothers

"The pope is not our property. We must not try to own him.

The pope is a person and deserves the same respect as any other person.

The pope has a right to freedom. Any attitude, any wish, any desire that imposes our will, our desires, our wishes on his person is a violation of his right to freedom. We do not violate another person's right to freedom, anymore than we want our freedom violated.

The pope binds and unbinds. We do not. Whatever he chooses to bind and unbind, is is up to us to adapt, not him.

His Holiness is a Jesuit. He is not a secular pope as have been all of our popes this past 100 years. He's a regular priest. He has a right to live out his Jesuit vocation, even as pope. Canon Law and theology protect this right. It is we who must get used to the Jesuit way of doing things.

His Holiness has a spirituality, ecclesiology and and worldview that are his own. We have no right to invade that or expect that he accommodate to our own. A servant is not the same as property.

Finally, the Holy Father is not a lab rat that should be put under observation by us. He is a human being with dignity and should be respected as such."
This is much food for thought. I have to remember that our Holy Father, Francis, belonged to a religious community so his way of doing things may be different. That does't mean that our previous popes were any less humble or holy.
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  #49  
Old Mar 15, '13, 8:13 pm
SKWill SKWill is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
I will tell you what I told my brothers last night. Of course, you folks don't owe me obedience. But I think I had something worth saying. I told the brothers

"The pope is not our property. We must not try to own him.

The pope is a person and deserves the same respect as any other person.

The pope has a right to freedom. Any attitude, any wish, any desire that imposes our will, our desires, our wishes on his person is a violation of his right to freedom. We do not violate another person's right to freedom, anymore than we want our freedom violated.

The pope binds and unbinds. We do not. Whatever he chooses to bind and unbind, is is up to us to adapt, not him.

His Holiness is a Jesuit. He is not a secular pope as have been all of our popes this past 100 years. He's a regular priest. He has a right to live out his Jesuit vocation, even as pope. Canon Law and theology protect this right. It is we who must get used to the Jesuit way of doing things.

His Holiness has a spirituality, ecclesiology and and worldview that are his own. We have no right to invade that or expect that he accommodate to our own. A servant is not the same as property.

Finally, the Holy Father is not a lab rat that should be put under observation by us. He is a human being with dignity and should be respected as such."
Thank you, Brother JR.
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  #50  
Old Mar 15, '13, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by zab View Post
This is much food for thought. I have to remember that our Holy Father, Francis, belonged to a religious community so his way of doing things may be different. That does't mean that our previous popes were any less humble or holy.
Absolutely not. It's not about who was holier. It's about a very different worldview. Secular priests live in the secular world. Regulars (priests, brothers and sisters), if they are faithful to their charism, live in a very different world.

When you get to be 76 years old and have lived the consecrated life for 46 years, as he has, certain behaviors, points of view, and a spiritual paradigm defines you as a person. You are no longer an individual. You're part of a corporate body. Even when there are differences between you and your brothers, there are more points in common that are part of your culture. In this case, I'm referring to his Jesuit culture.

Jesuit culture combines the simplicity of the mendicants with the pragmatism of the missionary.
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  #51  
Old Mar 15, '13, 9:19 pm
St Francis St Francis is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Thank you, Brother JR, for your words of wisdom and for telling us more about our new Holy Father!
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  #52  
Old Mar 15, '13, 9:27 pm
PJD1987 PJD1987 is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
\The red vestments traditionally worn by popes over the white cassock are really the marks of the papacy, not the dress of a diocesan bishop. I guess this tells us a little about one point on his papal agenda. Contrary to what someone said on another thread, itís not that he does not know papal protocol. Itís his desire to put emphasis on the fact that he is the ordinary of the Diocese of Rome.
Brother, I did not read the whole thread, so forgive me if this was brought up already.

But my question is this...do you see Pope Francis as changing the papacy into a more "primus inter pares" position? We see already that the Orthodox are really very quickly embracing him, and his emphasis on being the Bishop of Rome and eschewing the normal papal traditional trappings seem to hint at this development. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you.
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  #53  
Old Mar 15, '13, 9:53 pm
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by PJD1987 View Post
Brother, I did not read the whole thread, so forgive me if this was brought up already.

But my question is this...do you see Pope Francis as changing the papacy into a more "primus inter pares" position? We see already that the Orthodox are really very quickly embracing him, and his emphasis on being the Bishop of Rome and eschewing the normal papal traditional trappings seem to hint at this development. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you.
I don't think so, at least not the way that the Orthodox understand it. I see him going in the direction that Bl. John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI were going, a more collegial expression of the papacy in which the pope is very much a part of the college of bishops, but he still remains the primate, therefore the head of the college. Both popes saw themselves very much in communion with their bishops, not in isolation from them.

This would certainly be more comfortable for the Orthodox patriarchs and popes, because they are true bishops. They are validly and legitimately ordained. There is no question about their liceity or their communion in sacris with the college of bishops in the Catholic Church.

It will also be well appreciated by the Eastern Catholic bishops. Their paradigm of the papacy is one of collegiality. They're not very comfortable with the Latin Catholic vision of the papacy. They recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, but they also struggle to maintain their autonomy, unlike the Latin hierarchy which is very dependent on the Bishop of Rome.

I see him continuing the movement toward a middle of the road model. The pope remains the Pontiff, the successor Peter, the Vicar of Christ, but also a brother bishop to the bishops of all the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

The image that comes to my mind is that of an inverted cone rather than a triangle with the pope at the top. It would be a cone with the point upward. The pope occupies the tip, but the bishops are gathered around him in a circle at the base.
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  #54  
Old Mar 16, '13, 8:03 am
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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I agree. But I think it has to go both ways. No one apparently knows a whole lot about the Holy Father, yet from the gushing accolades that are pouring forth it would seem that he was the pre conclave favorite..Judging prematurely can be painfully bad on both sides of the fence
From the world's point of view, this may seem wisdom, but the Church is not a political organization, at least primarily. It is first a body; a family, where charity is of greater value than neutrality. Yes, his reception has been gushy because that is the language of love. Love, according to St. Paul, does not seek out faults. Newlyweds are not blind to their beloved's faults, but they do not focus on them, nor does love give room for posting criticism all over social media.

Let the secular press do its secular thing. It should be no surprise that Christian sites, like here and over on Fr. Zuhlsdorf's place should take an approach commensurate with the law of charity.
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  #55  
Old Mar 16, '13, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by pnewton View Post
From the world's point of view, this may seem wisdom, but the Church is not a political organization, at least primarily. It is first a body; a family, where charity is of greater value than neutrality. Yes, his reception has been gushy because that is the language of love. Love, according to St. Paul, does not seek out faults. Newlyweds are not blind to their beloved's faults, but they do not focus on them, nor does love give room for posting criticism all over social media.
Nice post! The morning of the actual election, I had a dream where the smoke was white, and I was virtually overjoyed to the point of tears. It was such a disappointment to discover that it was just a dream, yet later in the day, the dream proved true. I was so overcome in the spirit with what I believe was supernatural joy. My belief is that his "gushy reception" is simply a manifestation of the Holy Spirit confirming in the hearts of the faithful that this is His choice and allowing us to celebrate it with Him.

As you mentioned somewhere else, it was not a gift in the last conclave for me, either. If Pope Francis's beginning brings such a blessing, what will be the middle and ending? Awesome!
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  #56  
Old Mar 16, '13, 8:32 am
Bob Aliano Bob Aliano is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

"4. Can the pope change such traditions?

This answer is strictly mine. The answer is, yes. The pope is not bound by any law or tradition that is not contained in divine revelation. Nor is he bound by any precedent established by his predecessors. He calls his own shots. As much as we would like to bind him, we must remember that Christ gave him the power to bind and unbind, not us."

Serious prudence is necessary here or the relevance of Papal actions might seem diminished in the eyes of the congregation.
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  #57  
Old Mar 16, '13, 9:44 am
Jennykay Jennykay is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by Mike30
I agree. But I think it has to go both ways. No one apparently knows a whole lot about the Holy Father, yet from the gushing accolades that are pouring forth it would seem that he was the pre conclave favorite..Judging prematurely can be painfully bad on both sides of the fence
------------------------------
Pope Francis has been a Cardinal. Apparently the Cardinals in Conclave knew enough about him. As far as other Cardinals whom the media reported as "contenders" or "favorites", what do we know about them regarding what their behavior would be as Pope? And let us remember that a Pope appointed him Cardinal.
Let us also remember the accolades for the new Holy Father are not meant to diminish those who preceded him. When John Paul II died,some feared that no one could replace him and they were correct. Benedict XVI had his own Papacy and became known and loved. Francis is not a replacement for Benedict or any other Pope. He is the Pope now.
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  #58  
Old Mar 16, '13, 10:18 am
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Pope Francis on mass media and name
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  #59  
Old Mar 16, '13, 11:33 am
PacoG PacoG is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
His Holiness is a Jesuit. He is not a secular pope as have been all of our popes this past 100 years. He's a regular priest. He has a right to live out his Jesuit vocation, even as pope. Canon Law and theology protect this right. It is we who must get used to the Jesuit way of doing things.[/b]
I thought Popes St. Pius X and Pope Blessed John XXIII were Third Order Franciscans. I remember hearing a story about how John XXIII tried to resign from the Order to the head of the Franciscan Order when they met shortly after he was elected.

If I am wrong, I, at least, get a good education from Brother JR about how the Third Orders aren't regulars and how all that works.
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  #60  
Old Mar 16, '13, 1:59 pm
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Lormar Lormar is offline
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Default Re: Some answers to questions about Pope Francis

Thanks for starting this thread, Brother Jay. I thought of you almost immediately when I heard the name our Holy Father took!
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