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  #31  
Old Jul 22, '17, 9:18 pm
IWantGod IWantGod is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey97 View Post
Hi all! I hope everyone had a blessed Sunday!

I had a discussion with a friend earlier today. In it, my friend claimed that "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." Also, he wrote that "The Catholic faith is not humanly perfect. It is dangerous to trust a human run thing."

Now, this deeply bothered me, and I considered this to be heretical, which may or may not be an accurate claim. While discussing this, I brought up the Catechism (2088 and 2089). My friend claimed that he had spoken to multiple priests about this and they agreed that this was not heresy as he was not trying to drive people away from the Church. He placed more value on actively participating than believing everything, since people have doubts.

My question is, is there any truth to this, especially in regards to teaching disagreements to others, and would these statements be heretical, or even incredulous.

Thanks all! Have a wonderful evening!

Its akin to saying i don't want to hear it, or society does not want to hear it.

I once wore a cross to work and people were frothing at the mouth.
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  #32  
Old Jul 22, '17, 9:31 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey97 View Post
Hi all! I hope everyone had a blessed Sunday!

I had a discussion with a friend earlier today. In it, my friend claimed that "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." Also, he wrote that "The Catholic faith is not humanly perfect. It is dangerous to trust a human run thing."

Now, this deeply bothered me, and I considered this to be heretical, which may or may not be an accurate claim. While discussing this, I brought up the Catechism (2088 and 2089). My friend claimed that he had spoken to multiple priests about this and they agreed that this was not heresy as he was not trying to drive people away from the Church. He placed more value on actively participating than believing everything, since people have doubts.

My question is, is there any truth to this, especially in regards to teaching disagreements to others, and would these statements be heretical, or even incredulous.

Thanks all! Have a wonderful evening!
Canon law (CIC):
Canon 750 – § 1. Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith which are contained in the word of God as it has been written or handed down by tradition, that is, in the single deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and which are at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn Magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal Magisterium, which in fact is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred Magisterium. All are therefore bound to avoid any contrary doctrines.

§ 2. Furthermore, each and everything set forth definitively by the Magisterium of the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals must be firmly accepted and held; namely, those things required for the holy keeping and faithful exposition of the deposit of faith; therefore, anyone who rejects propositions which are to be held definitively sets himself against the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Canon 752 – Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.


Canon 1371 – The following are to be punished with a just penalty:
1° a person who, apart from the case mentioned in canon 1364 § 1, teaches a doctrine condemned by the Roman Pontiff, or by an Ecumenical Council, or obstinately rejects the teachings mentioned in canon 750 § 2 or in canon 752 and, when warned by the Apostolic See or by the Ordinary, does not retract;

2° a person who in any other way does not obey the lawful command or prohibition of the Apostolic See or the Ordinary or Superior and, after being warned, persists in disobedience.
Canon 1364 – §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

§2. If contumacy of long duration or the gravity of scandal demands it, other penalties can be added, including dismissal from the clerical state.
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  #33  
Old Yesterday, 8:40 am
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jcrichton jcrichton is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantGod View Post
Its akin to saying i don't want to hear it, or society does not want to hear it.

I once wore a cross to work and people were frothing at the mouth.
Hi!

Sadly, this is not just a societal problem (vision); non-Catholics have been creating theologies of the empty cross for generations, some of them hold the Catholic practice of wearing a Crucifix with stern disdain... and this "esthetic theology" has become so contagious that even Catholics are supping it up removing the Crucifix from the Altar or relegating it to a tiny "side-showing" or removing Christ from the Cross...

What I find interesting about all of this is that the one Apostle that the non-Catholic hold as a model and the Scriptures that they claim to follow/obey as their source of Truth and Authority compel them to look at the Crucifix (the Cross with Christ being Crucified) as the Sign of Salvation:
Quote:
22 And so, while the Jews demand miracles and the Greeks look for wisdom, 23 here are we preaching a crucified Christ; to the Jews an obstacle that they cannot get over, to the pagans madness, 24 but to those who have been called, whether they are Jews or Greeks, a Christ who is the power and the wisdom of God. 25 For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength. (1 Corinthians 1:22-25)
...and when they talk about boasting (both St. Paul and Scriptures), they talk about boasting in Christ:
Quote:
2 During my stay with you, the only knowledge I claimed to have was about Jesus, and only about him as the crucified Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:2)
...the Crucifix is becoming the "scarlet letter." ...how many Scriptural passages speak to Salvation or Justification by Christ's Resurrection, the Empty Tomb or Christ's Ascension?

Not a one!

Every passage that speaks to Salvation, Rescue, Justification... well, there's only One Source: Christ, and Him, as St. Paul says, Crucified!

Maran atha!

Angel

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  #34  
Old Yesterday, 10:52 am
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton View Post
Hi!

Sadly, this is not just a societal problem (vision); non-Catholics have been creating theologies of the empty cross for generations, some of them hold the Catholic practice of wearing a Crucifix with stern disdain... and this "esthetic theology" has become so contagious that even Catholics are supping it up removing the Crucifix from the Altar or relegating it to a tiny "side-showing" or removing Christ from the Cross...

What I find interesting about all of this is that the one Apostle that the non-Catholic hold as a model and the Scriptures that they claim to follow/obey as their source of Truth and Authority compel them to look at the Crucifix (the Cross with Christ being Crucified) as the Sign of Salvation:

...and when they talk about boasting (both St. Paul and Scriptures), they talk about boasting in Christ:

...the Crucifix is becoming the "scarlet letter." ...how many Scriptural passages speak to Salvation or Justification by Christ's Resurrection, the Empty Tomb or Christ's Ascension?

Not a one!

Every passage that speaks to Salvation, Rescue, Justification... well, there's only One Source: Christ, and Him, as St. Paul says, Crucified!

Maran atha!

Angel

Romans 4 ( Abraham was not weak in faith...)
19 And he was not weak in faith; neither did he consider his own body now dead, whereas he was almost an hundred years old, nor the dead womb of Sara.
20 In the promise also of God he staggered not by distrust; but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God:
21 Most fully knowing, that whatsoever he has promised, he is able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was reputed to him unto justice.
23 Now it is not written only for him, that it was reputed to him unto justice,
24 But also for us, to whom it shall be reputed, if we believe in him, that raised up Jesus Christ, our Lord, from the dead,
25 Who was delivered up for our sins, and rose again for our justification.
Haydock Commentary
Ver. 25. The eternal Father delivered his Son to death, to expiate our offences; he raised him from the dead for our justification. His death is our redemption; his resurrection is the principal object of our faith. Our faith in the resurrection, is imputed unto justice, as was the faith of Abraham in the promises of God. The apostle here seems to refer our faith and justification only to the resurrection, not to the exclusion of other mysteries of religion, which are all, and every one of them, the objects of our faith. But the resurrection is, as it were, the zeal and consummation of the rest; it eminently includes in itself all the others. (Calmet)
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  #35  
Old Yesterday, 5:35 pm
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jcrichton jcrichton is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
Romans 4 ( Abraham was not weak in faith...)
19 And he was not weak in faith; neither did he consider his own body now dead, whereas he was almost an hundred years old, nor the dead womb of Sara.
20 In the promise also of God he staggered not by distrust; but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God:
21 Most fully knowing, that whatsoever he has promised, he is able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was reputed to him unto justice.
23 Now it is not written only for him, that it was reputed to him unto justice,
24 But also for us, to whom it shall be reputed, if we believe in him, that raised up Jesus Christ, our Lord, from the dead,
25 Who was delivered up for our sins, and rose again for our justification.
Haydock Commentary
Ver. 25. The eternal Father delivered his Son to death, to expiate our offences; he raised him from the dead for our justification. His death is our redemption; his resurrection is the principal object of our faith. Our faith in the resurrection, is imputed unto justice, as was the faith of Abraham in the promises of God. The apostle here seems to refer our faith and justification only to the resurrection, not to the exclusion of other mysteries of religion, which are all, and every one of them, the objects of our faith. But the resurrection is, as it were, the zeal and consummation of the rest; it eminently includes in itself all the others. (Calmet)
Hi!

Could you expand on your post?, I don't quite get what you mean to convey.

Maran atha!

Angel

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  #36  
Old Today, 12:43 am
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: "Catholics are free to disagree with anything. Just as long as they don't preach it." (Edited Title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton View Post
Hi!

Could you expand on your post?, I don't quite get what you mean to convey.

Maran atha!

Angel

Resurrection is the principal object of our faith and Resurrection is what the Holy Cross represents, but also "eminently includes in itself all the others".
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