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  #91  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:15 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by starshiptrooper View Post
It is a realization of the simple truth. Diversity+proximity=war.
There are many examples, but history is not destiny. And there are precedents from history that help us know that this is possible.

As Catholics we would see the grace-filled solution, a mission, in breaking the negative cycle. We might also consider that diversity + apartheid = inequity and injustice.
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  #92  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:18 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by starshiptrooper View Post
The tribe is the foundation of civilization. Life was short, nasty and brutish. You needed to be able to trust the people around you absolutely because if they failed to pull their weight or worse betrayed you, the entire tribe could die, painfully. You had to decide who was in and who was out as matter of basic survival.
WAS. Now things are different and we have the luxury of enjoying and gaining from diversity.

Quote:
Correct morality is derived from a realistic understanding of human nature, not from the wishful thinking of globalists and leftists.
What religion holds this?

You may be less troubled if you make a sincere effort to inform your conscience and moral thinking with the teaching so of the Catholic church.
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  #93  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:21 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by starshiptrooper View Post
America is a historical anomaly. It was a country that was more or less created deliberately. In a very strict theoretical sense, there is no reason why anyone could not be an American.Japan is an excellent example of what is effectively a modern ethnostate. Crime is low, terrorism almost nonexistent and immigration is strictly controlled so as not to upset the demographic balance.
I think that American model has proven itself superior to the Japanese model.
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  #94  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:22 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
I would suggest starting with a basic primer on recent British history and why there are ethnic groups of various types from former bits of the Empire here. Their grandparents and parents were not brought here out of 'false compassion', they were in many cases invited here during an economic era when not enough native workers could be found to fill menial or unskilled jobs.
I am not seeing your point, but I don't doubt that it is a good one. Please elaborate.
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  #95  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:29 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by abucs View Post
No this is the left wanting to police language through political correctness because they cannot deal with what was said.
Actually it is me, not the stereotypical left. And I am looking not to police and control but to correct and advance.

Quote:
So now the criticism is because I am not talking about individuals, next it will be because of my perceived tone.If we are going to talk about people in general then we are going to use categories. That is not a problem, it is analysis of complex phenomena.

I have spoken about Jihadists, I have spoken about the greater Muslim population, I have spoken about innocent Muslim victims.

Your criticism is empty and makes no sense.
You have talked. But in the end, whatever differentiation you apply, in the end you appear to integrate over Muslims in your thinking about what needs to be done.

Quote:
Goodnight and hopefully when I read the blog tomorrow someone will actually respond to what I have said if they want to criticise, not invent their own words, stretch implications and have red herring empty criticisms like I speak in categories.
Instead of carping about being misunderstood, how about communicating more fully. It has been suggested, and I will repeat the ask: please lay out, bit by bit, your analysis of how immigration policy leads to violence. We can then think about causation and alternative interventions.
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  #96  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:30 pm
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starshiptrooper starshiptrooper is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
There was no conclusion drawn fromm the origin. Just a question.
So thanks for an example of the misapplication of the concept of genetic fallacy.
It was clearly a rhetorical question. Your move.
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Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
There are many examples, but history is not destiny. And there are precedents from history that help us know that this is possible.
What precedents?
Quote:
As Catholics we would see the grace-filled solution, a mission, in breaking the negative cycle. We might also consider that diversity + apartheid = inequity and injustice.
Of course if there was no forced diversity, there would be no perceived need for apartheid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
WAS. Now things are different and we have the luxury of enjoying and gaining from diversity.
What things are different pray tell? Humans are still tribal and still violent. What do I gain from diversity? Japan is a nondiverse country with a low crimerate and they have no problem with Islamic terrorism
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What religion holds this?
Why is that relevant?
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"It is quite legitimate for nations to treat their differences as a sacred inheritance and guard them at all costs." - Pope Pius XII
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  #97  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:52 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by starshiptrooper View Post
It was clearly a rhetorical question.
I don't think so. In any case, I would like to know your answer.

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What precedents?
Considerable trouble but enormous progress in the US.

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Of course if there was no forced diversity, there would be no perceived need for apartheid.
Maintaining separateness maintains inequality and injustice. We are our brothers keepers, and we are to emulate the good Samaritan,
Quote:
What things are different pray tell?
For many, and potentially for many. many more, he shortness, nastisness, and brutishness of life.

Quote:
What do I gain from diversity? Japan is a nondiverse country with a low crimerate and they have no problem with Islamic terrorism
An enormously broader range of ideas that go into the creation of knowledge and art, that advances the human prospect. And a diversity of opinions and self-criticism that safeguards us against much of the brutishness and nastiness that can more easily ascend in a monolithic society. I suspect that the US has thought more about My Lai than Japan has about Nanking.

Quote:
Why is that relevant?
You talk about the basis of morality, and question the relevance of religion. OK
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  #98  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:06 pm
ToeInTheWater ToeInTheWater is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
Maintaining separateness maintains inequality and injustice. We are our brothers keepers, and we are to emulate the good Samaritan.
Thanks for mentioning the good Samaritan. I think many Christians assume the good Samaritan parable was just some generic "be nice to people and help them out when they're down" message.

Yet, it was told by Jesus specifically in response to the question, "Who is my neighbor?" And the hero of the story is not a righteous Jew, but a Samaritan - a heretical sect that most Jews would consider to be outside their tribe. A member of one tribe actually saving a member of another, one who members of his own tribe had left for dead? Seems this goes completely against the view of "brutish human nature" espoused by many here; I guess according to that, the Samaritan was just a chump.

Jesus also taught his followers to actually love their enemies. Something that's apparently just as radical today as it was 2000 years ago.
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  #99  
Old Jun 19, '17, 7:14 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is online now
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by ToeInTheWater View Post
Thanks for mentioning the good Samaritan. I think many Christians assume the good Samaritan parable was just some generic "be nice to people and help them out when they're down" message.

Yet, it was told by Jesus specifically in response to the question, "Who is my neighbor?" And the hero of the story is not a righteous Jew, but a Samaritan - a heretical sect that most Jews would consider to be outside their tribe. A member of one tribe actually saving a member of another, one who members of his own tribe had left for dead? Seems this goes completely against the view of "brutish human nature" espoused by many here; I guess according to that, the Samaritan was just a chump.

Jesus also taught his followers to actually love their enemies. Something that's apparently just as radical today as it was 2000 years ago.
Sadly even radical among Christians who follow a 2000 year old tradition,
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  #100  
Old Jun 21, '17, 6:42 am
Vic Taltrees UK Vic Taltrees UK is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

I'm all for non-Brits joining in a thread about the UK.

But this has got nothing whatever to do with immigration, race or Muslims.

This long-term violent drunk was extremely well known to police, publicans, social workers etc. His family as tragically so often the case were too ashamed to throw him out and the public as usual on the western side of this country too apathetic to ensure anything was done about his constant domestic violence and aggravated anti-social behaviour.

Alcoholism is the only disease that tells people who haven't got it that you haven't got it.

This case is also one of many we are having that illustrates how the ********* Conservative cult undermines funding and manpower for police and all other normal and wholesome services.

They have sworn to represent only their party and not to desist from undermining civilised fabric.
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  #101  
Old Jun 21, '17, 8:41 am
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abucs abucs is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

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Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
Actually it is me, not the stereotypical left. And I am looking not to police and control but to correct and advance.
But you are acting like the stereotypical left in the ways I have explained. I am looking to 'correct and advance' you. How does that sound?

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Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
You have talked. But in the end, whatever differentiation you apply, in the end you appear to integrate over Muslims in your thinking about what needs to be done.
I am not sure if this sentence is grammatically correct but I think you are trying to say in my response to (at least) temporarily restricting immigration from areas that are dangerous to the host population I am lumping all Muslims together and you feel this is wrong, I presume. This is how law is done. When Democrats want guns removed from society I don't hear any of them criticising this because it puts all gun owners in the same boat whether they are responsible or not. No, they want guns removed from the population because they argue they are dangerous to the population and there is no talk of being mean and unfair to responsible gun owners. This is how law is done. Liberals are very selective when to roll out their false compassion. Apparently non citizen Muslims from overseas are entitled to the Liberal 'compassion' but not any citizen American responsible gun owners. It's hypocritical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
Instead of carping about being misunderstood, how about communicating more fully. It has been suggested, and I will repeat the ask: please lay out, bit by bit, your analysis of how immigration policy leads to violence. We can then think about causation and alternative interventions.
It is not that I have not been clear, I have, even answering questions repeatedly over this. It is obvious that you have not listened because as I have said, the stereotypical Left looks first to find something to morally criticise, even if it has to be invented. I will give you my thoughts again if you wish, but I would mainly be cutting and pasting from previous comments including at least 3 analogical presentations.
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  #102  
Old Jun 21, '17, 4:16 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

"What will be the result of the attack on worshippers outside the Finsbury Park mosque in London? Answer: It will almost certainly bring the total Islamization of England one step closer."
--William Kilpatrick

Further on in his analysis, Mr. Kilpatrick continues:

Quote:
I began this piece with the observation that the revenge attack in London will eventuate in more Islamization. How? In two ways. First, there will be a shutdown of rational analysis of the current situation. No one will be allowed to say that immigration is a big part of the problem because that will be construed as Islamophobic.

Moreover, no one will be permitted to discuss the phenomenon of stealth jihad—the process by which Islamic culture gradually replaces the native culture. The voices of Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Douglas Murray, Mark Steyn, and others will be silenced, and Islamic apologists such as Muddassar Ahmed will have the field all to themselves. The result is that the cultural jihad will proceed—probably at an accelerated pace—under the radar.

Second, backlash attacks like the one at Finsbury will be taken not only as an opportunity to shut up critics of Islam, but also as an opportunity to extol the benefits of Islam to society. The “Islamophobia” attack will be met by more efforts to show that Britons are not intolerant, and not haters. As a result, there will be more compromises, more concessions, and more submission to Islam.
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  #103  
Old Jun 22, '17, 2:24 am
Vic Taltrees UK Vic Taltrees UK is offline
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Default Re: Van 'hits worshippers leaving mosque' in London's Finsbury Park

Ref my post 100, I was too brief.

I think Golding and Fransen are ISIS stooges planted by David Cameron.

Obviously, some innocent Muslims were impacted.

I think this half baked nonsense is a bee that has got into Osborne's bonnet. He was probably not brought up or schooled to think and alcohol poisoning hasn't helped either.

His family and neighbours - including probably doctors and social workers - are typical enablers.

His type very seldom recover and his best hope is - probably - to die rapidly of something like pancreitis.

In cases of drunkenness, if there is the slightest aggravating factor - which there was countless times with him - they must be dealt with with the utmost severity without hesitation, every time. Drinking like that should not be regarded as a lifestyle accessory.

Instead of complaining of obstacles to making an arrest, the bobbies on the beat must design and impose their own system that works.

That police chiefs have only yesterday begun to speak out shows what a climate of fear May has been imposing for the last 7 years.
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