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  #16  
Old Apr 24, '17, 9:26 am
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
covert recon today does sound plausible, but to what end? why would they be the only ones who have access to the type of technology commonly described in 'ufo' sightings, such as totally silent running, hovering in place, cloaking, etc?

If man does have this advanced technology, why does NASA not have access to use it for space travel, the US air force, the Army, etc?

It just doesnt make sense those at the top would restrict use or even knowledge of this technology to one specific group/agency, for the sole purpose of secretly spying on the public...however if this is the case, then we need to really worry, because their agenda or plan is probably going to be very bad for the general public.

Also, these theories do not explain the 'ufo' sightings that are very old, (pre 1900) reading the descriptions of sightings going back to the 1600s, they sound very similar to the things people are seeing in the skies today, its the same shapes, colors, behavior, etc.

Whatever they are, they have been around for a very long time.


The early reports can be dismissed for a lack of evidence. And sure, it makes sense to keep certain technologies secret. I know how the average UFO operates and there is sufficient evidence, including patents, that show that this is the case. We don't need to worry about anything. The recon I'm talking about occurred around military facilities and ICBM sites, among similar. Exactly the type of recon an enemy would do to make sure where the targets are and to look for any changes.

In the 1950s, the military tried to convince Congress that there was a "bomber gap" between us and the Russians. That turned out to be not true. Later, in the 1950s/early 1960s, they said there was a "missile gap," which also turned out to be not true. In fact, the money for some secret projects was hidden in nonmilitary funds allocations. To this day, the Pentagon has not been audited. They can't afford to be: "Auditor to Pentagon General: "On page 320, I see a line item for 'Lint.' What is Lint?"

General: "On the grounds of National Security, I cannot answer your question." The end.

Silent operation? And hovering? Not that hard to do. Spying on the public? They don't care about the public. They only care about targets and new construction on government owned land.



Ed
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  #17  
Old Apr 25, '17, 8:30 am
mikekle mikekle is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
I know how the average UFO operates and there is sufficient evidence, including patents, that show that this is the case.



Spying on the public? They don't care about the public. They only care about targets and new construction on government owned land.



Ed
From everything I have read, it appears to be some type of antigravity or counter rotating magnets.

The only problem with the second part is, majority of reports place these strange crafts in residential areas or very rural areas, many also seen above and close to interstate highways, and more and more, it seems these crafts do no mind being seen, they just hover above a busy highway for all to see..?

Then there is the issue of 'missing time' with the witnesses, this has been going on for decades, but not in every case, this does not seem to fit with some secretive spy agency, what purpose would they have for doing this with ordinary people?

Really it seems to me there is 2 groups involved, one being the secretive spy agency like you mentioned, this would explain all the sightings around military bases and airports, and the other group I believe is probably the real deal (visitors from somewhere else).
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  #18  
Old Apr 25, '17, 9:01 am
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
From everything I have read, it appears to be some type of antigravity or counter rotating magnets.

The only problem with the second part is, majority of reports place these strange crafts in residential areas or very rural areas, many also seen above and close to interstate highways, and more and more, it seems these crafts do no mind being seen, they just hover above a busy highway for all to see..?

Then there is the issue of 'missing time' with the witnesses, this has been going on for decades, but not in every case, this does not seem to fit with some secretive spy agency, what purpose would they have for doing this with ordinary people?

Really it seems to me there is 2 groups involved, one being the secretive spy agency like you mentioned, this would explain all the sightings around military bases and airports, and the other group I believe is probably the real deal (visitors from somewhere else).


The UFOs were debunked in the mind of the public for years or given bad to ridiculous explanations. The missing time aspect came out during hypnosis and since there is good technique and bad technique involved, like asking leading questions, then there are other reasons for this "missing time." The only good source of information about this strongly suggests that some people have psychological conditions that involve imaginative events or even lucid dreams, as being perceived as real. There have been cases where spy agencies have induced altered states of consciousness in individuals without their knowledge using LSD, and possibly other hallucinogens. The goal was to see to what degree a person's mind and/or body could be manipulated.

UFO covert reconnaissance included more than spying on military installations but flying over remote or rural areas to plan flight paths for attacking bombers, and as exit flight paths for the UFOs themselves, creating confusion as to from which direction they actually started from. As the Interstate freeway system expanded in the US in the 1950s, generating maps of new construction from images was also important. People don't know why these freeways were built well below ground level in certain areas. The purpose was so that missile-launching vehicles could use them.

As far as UFOs hovering in place for all to see, there is a report that states UFOs should be studied "for psychological warfare implications." In other words, how would the public react to seeing a UFO just hovering there? Panic? Hysteria? Or just lots of phone calls to police stations? This had to be known in the event an attack was imminent, especially in the 1950s. The concern was UFOs could clog phone lines and act as distractions as the bombers flew in. In one report, a couple was driving down a highway at night, saw a UFO by the road, and automatically assumed it was a secret military aircraft.



Ed
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  #19  
Old Apr 25, '17, 9:50 am
tafan tafan is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas84173 View Post
The Catholic Church teaches that extra terrestrial life does not contradict the teachings of the Church. Somewhat of a recent statement, and made me wonder at first if they knew something to make them come out with the statement. I don't know if you want a religion that UFOs and alien life are huge in its doctrine, check out Raelism, Scientology, Aetherius Society, Unarius Academy of Science....
Can you provide a source for this claim about Church teaching? I have never seen it.

If, by extraterrestrial life, we mean intelligent, self-aware, beings, then I tend to think it does contradict Church teaching (or at least comes very close), but that is only my opinion. If the church teaches otherwise, I will modify my thinking.
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  #20  
Old Apr 25, '17, 10:00 am
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Here is something from Pope Francis:


http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-say...20140512-zraqo




Ed
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  #21  
Old Apr 25, '17, 10:07 am
tafan tafan is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
Here is something from Pope Francis:


http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-say...20140512-zraqo




Ed
That's a hypothetical to make a certain point. He doesn't say that the existence of martians is not opposed to Church teaching. And the existence of Martians is most certainly opposed to Church teaching. It is a scientific fact that Martians do not exist. Find me a real scientist who actually believes there is intelligent life on mars. The Church teaches there can never be any conflict between faith and reason. For the Church to teach that Martians might exist would certainly provide such a conflict.

So your example does not suffice for my request.
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  #22  
Old Apr 25, '17, 8:44 pm
mikekle mikekle is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by tafan View Post
That's a hypothetical to make a certain point. He doesn't say that the existence of martians is not opposed to Church teaching. And the existence of Martians is most certainly opposed to Church teaching. It is a scientific fact that Martians do not exist. Find me a real scientist who actually believes there is intelligent life on mars. The Church teaches there can never be any conflict between faith and reason. For the Church to teach that Martians might exist would certainly provide such a conflict.

So your example does not suffice for my request.
How would intelligent life in other places contradict anything in the bible or about God?

If they exist...the same God we worship, created them too, its really quite simple.

If you want proof of this kind of thing from someone within the CC itself, read some of the things Fr balducci , Br Cosmolango, Fr Malachi Martin, etc say about this...its extremely interesting.

If you look around you will see many scientists and other experts in the area, say it is almost a mathematical certainty that other planets out there hold life.
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  #23  
Old Yesterday, 7:58 am
tafan tafan is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
How would intelligent life in other places contradict anything in the bible or about God?
All of this is my own speculation, I realize it is not Church teaching, so don't expect me to argue it strongly, but I will tell you what I am thinking:

By intelligent life, I mean life with a immortal soul, self-aware, etc.
1) the story of creation in Genesis, although admittedly not literal, does provide truth. And its hard to read it without coming to the conclusion that mankind is the summit of God's creation in this physical universe (regardless of exactly how he created us)
2) I have read CS Lewis's space trilogy novels where he tries to detail how other life, such as ours, could exist from a theological perspective. I think his three scenarios are correct: There is earth, where humans sinned and have do be saved. There is mars, where none of the inhabitants ever sinned. And then there is Venus, were the newly created Adam and Eve are being tested (this last one is really fascinating by the way). And on Venus, since creation happens after mankind, and God has become man, the inhabitants are made to be just like us. That is key. God became man. Jesus has two natures: human and divine. Not three natures: human and martian and divine.

I will readily admit God could have come up with another means of saving another fallen race besides an incarnation. I just don't see it as very likely.







Quote:
If they exist...the same God we worship, created them too, its really quite simple.
Of course this is true.


Quote:
If you want proof of this kind of thing from someone within the CC itself, read some of the things Fr balducci , Br Cosmolango, Fr Malachi Martin, etc say about this...its extremely interesting.
Malachi Martin? I will pass. But I must ask, what do these author's actually prove?

Quote:
If you look around you will see many scientists and other experts in the area, say it is almost a mathematical certainty that other planets out there hold life
Now we are getting away from the theological and to the pure science of it all. That too is very unconvincing. I understand, as well has I suppose possible, the vastness of the universe. But simply saying because something exists once, and there is a very,very huge universe out there, it must occur again, is not convincing to me. Look at the number of species on our own planet, its a very large number. And there is only one of us. Great cities, wonderful music, fascinating literature, etc has all only been done by one, out of millions, of species.
Besides the statistical argument, scientists have exactly zero evidence of life, such as ours, elsewhere in the universe. Zero.

So I remain rather skeptical both from a theological and scientific point of view. I do not doubt that God has the power to create as many species with intelligence and immortal souls as He would desire, I simply doubt that He has done so.
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  #24  
Old Yesterday, 12:44 pm
Usagi Usagi is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
This is a just sample of quotes from high ranking people that seem to confirm a conspiracy...

" We have, indeed, been contacted - even visited - by extraterrestrial beings, and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public."
- Victor Marchetti - CIA


Okay, this is a direct claim of alien contact and a resulting coverup. Who is Mr. Manchetti and have we reason to believe him? Has he offered evidence beyond his word?

Quote:
"Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."
- Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter - 1st director CIA
This says that the U.S. military is (or was at one time) concerned that there might be something to UFO reports but is downplaying their significance in front of the public. The guys in charge of the security of our airspace had better be concerned about reports of flying vehicles. This says nothing about aliens or even if their concerns turned out to be well-founded.

Quote:
"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity."
- Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockhead Skunk Works
Definitely claims hidden technology, but not alien life. I find it extremely unlikely that we could have workable star travel and keep it hidden all this time, but I suppose the guy could be right. Like Manchetti, this is another one where the speaker's job or former job suggests that they might know more than we do, but conveniently we have only their word to go on.


Quote:
"Information on UFOs, including sighting reports, has been and is still being officially withheld."
- Colonel Joseph J. Bryan III, founder of the CIA's psychological warfare staff, special assistance to the secretary of the Air Force, advisor to NATO
Says "We know some stuff about UFO sightings that has not been released to the public." Does not say what that might be, nor that UFOs are alien craft.

Quote:
"The UFOs are no figment of the imagination."
- Lieutenant Colonel Louis Corbin Army Intelligence
Says that this guy believes that at least some UFO reports describe something real, not imagined. Does not say what he believes they actually are, nor why he thinks so.

Quote:
"In concealing the evidence of UFO operations, the Air Force is making a serious mistake."
- Lt Colonel James McAshan USAF
Disagrees with Air Force policy on some aspect of the UFO matter. Does not say that UFO sightings correspond to alien visitations.

Quote:
"Flying saucers are real. Too many good men have seen them, that don't have hallucinations."
- Captain Eddie Rickenbacker
Expresses belief in the trustworthiness of some UFO witnesses. Not the same as a claim that he has personal knowledge or evidence in the matter.

Quote:
"We frequently see unidentified objects in the sky. We are quietly investigating them."
- Lieutenent General Akira Hirano, Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force
Pretty straightforward. We've seen weird stuff and we are investigating. No actual conclusion drawn. Uncontroversially true, but doesn't say anything particularly useful.

Quote:
"The unidentified flying objects do exist. Their presence and intelligent displacement in the Argentine airspace has been proven. Their nature and origin is unknown and no judgement is made about them.
- Captain Engineer Omar R. Pagani, Argentine Navy

Again, claims that there is something behind the sightings. Might claim that they are of intelligent origin (depending on what "intelligent displacement in the Argentine airspace" means). Specifically disclaims any knowledge of what they are or where they come from.

I'm not saying there are no aliens, or even no alien visitors. But all but one of the quoted individuals says nothing about that, and most of them boil down to what everyone already knows: people see objects in the sky that they can't identify, and at least some of them seem to be real things, so we're looking into it but have no idea what they are.
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  #25  
Old Yesterday, 8:54 pm
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and UFO'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekle View Post
This is a just sample of quotes from high ranking people that seem to confirm a conspiracy...

" We have, indeed, been contacted - even visited - by extraterrestrial beings, and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public."
- Victor Marchetti - CIA

"Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."
- Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter - 1st director CIA

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity."
- Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockhead Skunk Works

"Information on UFOs, including sighting reports, has been and is still being officially withheld."
- Colonel Joseph J. Bryan III, founder of the CIA's psychological warfare staff, special assistance to the secretary of the Air Force, advisor to NATO

"The UFOs are no figment of the imagination."
- Lieutenant Colonel Louis Corbin Army Intelligence

"In concealing the evidence of UFO operations, the Air Force is making a serious mistake."
- Lt Colonel James McAshan USAF

"Flying saucers are real. Too many good men have seen them, that don't have hallucinations."
- Captain Eddie Richenbacker

"We frequently see unidentified objects in the sky. We are quietly investigating them."
- Lieutenent General Akira Hirano, Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force

"The unidentified flying objects do exist. Their presence and intelligent displacement in the Argentine airspace has been proven. Their nature and origin is unknown and no judgement is made about them.
- Captain Engineer Omar R. Pagani, Argentine Navy


Please do not proceed with this. It is all nonsense. You even thought aliens might be in Genisis.
There are no aliens that have ever visited the earth. UFO's are NOT alien spacecraft. Nobody has been contacted or abducted by aliens.

This is purely in the mind and fantasy land of some people.
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