Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Jun 19, '17, 9:55 am
Tis Bearself's Avatar
Tis Bearself Tis Bearself is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 10, 2017
Posts: 2,574
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Before posting this, I looked up an old thread on whether Catholics could say Jewish prayers, but it got confusing in a hurry because some of the people posting were Jewish converts who were preserving their heritage through saying the prayers, and also there was talk of doing entire Jewish rituals such as Seder.

My questions are more specific, as follows, so if someone can address just the specific questions that would be helpful.

Specific question 1: Is a Catholic who was not previously Jewish permitted to say the Jewish prayers of Shema and Kaddish?

Specific question 2: Is there a reference (either online or in a book) for a selection of Jewish traditional prayers that Catholics can say without violating any tenets of their Catholic faith?

Thank you for your guidance.
__________________
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.” - G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Jun 19, '17, 2:09 pm
peter26's Avatar
peter26 peter26 is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 20, 2012
Posts: 2,063
Religion: Looking for a new path
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

I have looked up the prayers you mentioned. The Kaddish seems to be essentially a prayer praising God and making intercession for various causes. I can see no problems with it.

The Shema comprising of Deuteronomy 6:4–9, 11:13-21, and Numbers 15:37–41, all of which the RC accepts as canonical scripture and which starts with the verses that Jesus cited as the greatest commandment "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your means." No problems here.
__________________
The Lord bless thee, and keep thee. The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee. The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Jun 19, '17, 2:16 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Of interest is the Christian practice from the early days:

2767 This indivisible gift of the Lord's words and of the Holy Spirit who gives life to them in the hearts of believers has been received and lived by the Church from the beginning. The first communities prayed the Lord's Prayer three times a day, in place of the "Eighteen Benedictions" customary in Jewish piety.


http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p4s2a1.htm#2767

This is what I and my family follow (have great love for the early days of the Church)
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Jun 19, '17, 2:20 pm
thephilosopher6's Avatar
thephilosopher6 thephilosopher6 is offline
Regular Member
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: October 5, 2015
Posts: 1,454
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

I wouldn't say there is anything necessarily objectionable to saying the Shema or even the Kaddish. The Shema and much of the Kaddish is taken from the Old Testament, which we believe to be scripture, and due to it being scripture Catholics are obliged to believe it. As Catholics though, we must realize that we are in a new covenant and understand that we must continue our traditions. Catholicism, though we have our roots in Judaism, and share much in common with the Jewish people, and indeed we worship a Jew, Judaism and Christianity are separate religions. Christianity and Judaism diverged in the late first century, and we have developed our own theology and ways of life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Jun 19, '17, 3:48 pm
Tis Bearself's Avatar
Tis Bearself Tis Bearself is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 10, 2017
Posts: 2,574
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by thephilosopher6 View Post
As Catholics though, we must realize that we are in a new covenant and understand that we must continue our traditions. Catholicism, though we have our roots in Judaism, and share much in common with the Jewish people, and indeed we worship a Jew, Judaism and Christianity are separate religions. Christianity and Judaism diverged in the late first century, and we have developed our own theology and ways of life.
Thank you, yes, I myself do not have any Jewish heritage and have been a Catholic since birth. I would not be following all their traditions or probably doing anything other than just saying a couple of prayers from time to time. This is also not to "replace" any Catholic prayers but rather as an addition from time to time to my normal Catholic prayer routines.

I do not want to inadvertently say any prayer frowned upon by the Church, so while the Shema and Kaddish seemed OK to me too, I wanted to get some additional opinions.
__________________
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.” - G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Jun 19, '17, 3:51 pm
ComplineSanFran ComplineSanFran is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2015
Posts: 2,497
Religion: Anglican
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Christians recite Jewish prayers and songs/canticles all the time. One of my favorites is from the Book of Exodus:

The Lord is my strength and my song
and has become salvation...

Anyway, if you are looking at liturgical prayers from Judaism, I would only advise you to be respectful. The Kaddish, for instance, is recited by mourners, and is one of the most heartfelt and beloved prayers they pray. Please don't usurp it out of context.

Are you learning Hebrew and Aramaic?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Jun 19, '17, 4:16 pm
Tis Bearself's Avatar
Tis Bearself Tis Bearself is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 10, 2017
Posts: 2,574
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComplineSanFran View Post
Christians recite Jewish prayers and songs/canticles all the time. One of my favorites is from the Book of Exodus:

The Lord is my strength and my song
and has become salvation...

Anyway, if you are looking at liturgical prayers from Judaism, I would only advise you to be respectful. The Kaddish, for instance, is recited by mourners, and is one of the most heartfelt and beloved prayers they pray. Please don't usurp it out of context.

Are you learning Hebrew and Aramaic?
I would be respectful. I also understand there are different versions of Kaddish.
I have a Jewish friend who can help me with what is appropriate to say and what is not, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing anything "wrong" before I asked her. I am not currently learning Hebrew. If necessary I could learn enough to say a short prayer.
__________________
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.” - G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Jun 19, '17, 4:39 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
Of interest is the Christian practice from the early days:

2767 This indivisible gift of the Lord's words and of the Holy Spirit who gives life to them in the hearts of believers has been received and lived by the Church from the beginning. The first communities prayed the Lord's Prayer three times a day, in place of the "Eighteen Benedictions" customary in Jewish piety.


http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p4s2a1.htm#2767

This is what I and my family follow (have great love for the early days of the Church)
Which is part of what your discussing.
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Jun 19, '17, 4:43 pm
Tis Bearself's Avatar
Tis Bearself Tis Bearself is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 10, 2017
Posts: 2,574
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
Which is part of what your discussing.
I would note that I am already praying the Lord's Prayer multiple times a day and am not looking to "replace" it with any Jewish prayer. It's interesting what the early Christians did, but I am not really seeking to imitate them either.
__________________
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.” - G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Jun 19, '17, 6:24 pm
StGerardMajella StGerardMajella is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2008
Posts: 676
Religion: Traditional Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Specific question 2: Is there a reference (either online or in a book) for a selection of Jewish traditional prayers that Catholics can say without violating any tenets of their Catholic faith?
The Jewish people pray from a prayer book called a "siddur". It contains the daily prayers said at morning, afternoon, and evening, as well as certain prayers said for certain life events (marriage, etc.) and daily activities (prayers before and after meals, etc.).

You can purchase a Jewish siddur in English and Hebrew. There are several versions depending on Jewish affiliation - Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc. Art Scroll publishing prints the Art Scroll Siddur, which is one of the most popular siddurs among the Orthodox. It comes in English with Hebrew, sometimes transliterated depending on which siddur you choose. (Note - Siddur should not be confused with the term "seder" referring to the Passover "seder" meal.)

I have privately read and prayed from an Orthodox Jewish siddur for many years and generally find very little to be objectionable. On rare occasion, you will find a rabbinic commentary to the prayers that are critical of the Church, but these are very rare. In fact, it has been very enriching to read these texts in that it has answered a lot of my questions about Catholicism, shedding light on areas I never understood. Most of the prayers in the siddur are from the Bible, with many verses are taken from the Psalms.

Interestingly, most of the prayers in the traditional Latin Mass have much in common with the Jewish siddur. You can actually find many, many similarities. Whether we realize it or not, most prayers said at Mass are actually Jewish prayers or derivations thereof.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Jun 20, '17, 4:35 am
Tis Bearself's Avatar
Tis Bearself Tis Bearself is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 10, 2017
Posts: 2,574
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Thank you all for your responses, it's been very helpful.
I will consult with my Jewish friend to make sure I do not say any prayers inappropriately.
I like the idea of the siddur as perhaps adding another dimension of understanding to the Catholic faith.
__________________
“The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.” - G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Jun 20, '17, 6:12 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tis Bearself View Post
I would note that I am already praying the Lord's Prayer multiple times a day and am not looking to "replace" it with any Jewish prayer. It's interesting what the early Christians did, but I am not really seeking to imitate them either.
I think it is very good to embrace what those early Christians did. Who were rather close to the time of transition from Jewish prayers.

They replaced those Eighteen Benedictions prayed three times at particular times in the day - with the Lords Prayer -prayed the three times during the day. Think more on this.

Also as I recall there were some prayers introduced "against Christians" within those daily prayers....
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY

Last edited by Bookcat; Jun 20, '17 at 6:25 am.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Jun 20, '17, 6:50 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

I have delighted to study these very early prayer times and practices- first the Jewish (Shema and the Tephilla) - then then (for life too) the Christian (the Lords Prayer). To me it is really wonderful to know what the early Christians did - and that the Lord's Prayer was used in this way - to pray during those times of prayer - those "hours of prayer" -as Christians.
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY

Last edited by Bookcat; Jun 20, '17 at 7:04 am.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jun 20, '17, 7:55 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
Also as I recall there were some prayers introduced "against Christians" within those daily prayers....
Was added as part of the Eighteen Benedictions in the later first Century - seen as being against Christians the "Naziarim" (from the first days Christians were called Nazarene (see Acts 24:5). And also the "Minim" (heretics).
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jun 20, '17, 8:23 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,626
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Specific questions regarding Jewish prayers

"If Jesus Prayed Judaism's 18 Benedictions, Why Don't We?"

http://justacatholic.blogspot.com/20...daisms-18.html

(there in he gives some of the reasons why we do not)

Seems too he has a book that touches on this topic among other books:

"Through, With, and In Him: The Prayer Life of Jesus and How to Make It Our Own"

Has an intro from Mike Aquilina and endorsements by various persons (Bishops etc). I think I will look into it further.
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
6652CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
6278Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: hazcompat
5221Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
4631Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4332Poems and Reflections
Last by: Purgatory Pete
4055OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: Fischli
3295For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: GLam8833
3261Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Herculees
2831Let's Empty Purgatory 2
Last by: Jeannie52
2449SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:53 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.