Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Eastern Catholicism
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old May 14, '17, 10:01 am
Medical Student Medical Student is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Posts: 157
Religion: Syro-Malabar Nasrani
Default Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Just wanted to check in and see if there were any particulars RE: above -- or is it for the most part the same as the Roman Church.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 17, '17, 8:08 pm
Herculees's Avatar
Herculees Herculees is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Posts: 364
Religion: Maronite Catholic
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

I'm not aware of any teachings specific to EC on this topic, however, for the most part the Catholic Church as a whole frowns prenuptial agreements.

The Catholic Church does not have a blanket prohibition of “prenups.” In certain cases, they can be quite valid and helpful. When a widow marries a widower, for example, and they both have children from their previous marriages, a prenup is a legitimate way of determining what is common property and what is separate as a basis for determining the inheritance rights of each spouse’s children.

In most cases, though, prenups are a bad idea and may even call into question the validity of the marriage itself.

Canon 1102 of the church’s Code of Canon Law says that “marriage subject to a condition about the future cannot be contracted validly.” For a prospective spouse to say, for example, “I will marry you, if you agree I’ll get half the assets at a divorce,” strikes at the heart of the church’s view of marriage. The very contemplation of divorce at the outset of a marriage creates an “escape hatch” and could well imply something less than a total commitment.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 18, '17, 8:29 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,610
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Pre nups are rather on the side of not permitted in the Catholic Church. And can even invalidate a marriage depending....
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 18, '17, 8:32 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Posts: 25,610
Religion: Christian! Catholic! Disciple of Jesus of Nazareth!
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Na...in-heaven.aspx
__________________
VIVAS IN DEO
IHCOY XPICTOY
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 21, '17, 5:19 am
Sirach2's Avatar
Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: April 18, 2010
Posts: 15,332
Religion: Catholic, Carmelite OCDS
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Good article, but it does not describe alternative motivation. It seems to focus totally on the possibility of divorce. I have a friend who entered marriage with a prenup, but the intent was to leave property to her son in the event of her death, and not in the event of a divorce. Her fiancé also had a will wherein he named his children, again, in the event of his death.

Sadly, they did later divorce, and her husband is now using this as grounds for annulment. However, as I read the article, the basis of marriage depends on the mutual consent entered into, which was a very holy and blessed decision at the time of the marriage.

Comments?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 21, '17, 10:08 am
SyroMalankara SyroMalankara is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2004
Posts: 4,632
Religion: Syro-Malankara Catholic
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Why would you need a prenup to pass property to children? There are other legal documents one can file.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 24, '17, 3:39 am
Sirach2's Avatar
Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: April 18, 2010
Posts: 15,332
Religion: Catholic, Carmelite OCDS
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyroMalankara View Post
Why would you need a prenup to pass property to children? There are other legal documents one can file.
That may be true, but not as effective. One may express their intent in a will or other contractual agreement, but this may be secretly changed by either party without the other's knowledge. As you may know, a new will does not need to be filed; it may be validly [and secretly] changed at a later date by a handwritten paper, usually witnessed by another person. Many lawsuits of the rich-and-famous have been contested over just such instruments as this.

However, a pre-nup is a an agreement formally entered into for a binding purpose as disposition of property or assets owned by either spouse prior to the marriage.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 25, '17, 2:13 pm
Vico's Avatar
Vico Vico is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 27, 2008
Posts: 13,633
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
That may be true, but not as effective. One may express their intent in a will or other contractual agreement, but this may be secretly changed by either party without the other's knowledge. As you may know, a new will does not need to be filed; it may be validly [and secretly] changed at a later date by a handwritten paper, usually witnessed by another person. Many lawsuits of the rich-and-famous have been contested over just such instruments as this.

However, a pre-nup is a an agreement formally entered into for a binding purpose as disposition of property or assets owned by either spouse prior to the marriage.
An irrevocable trust is better than a prenuptial agreement. There is also the revocable living trust AB (with marital trust and bypass trust) or an ABC trust. Do not move community property into a trust that was created before the marriage.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 25, '17, 3:17 pm
Sirach2's Avatar
Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: April 18, 2010
Posts: 15,332
Religion: Catholic, Carmelite OCDS
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
An irrevocable trust is better than a prenuptial agreement. There is also the revocable living trust AB (with marital trust and bypass trust) or an ABC trust. Do not move community property into a trust that was created before the marriage.
I can see a value in an AB trust, but it doesn't differ very much in theory from a pre-nup. In either case, the assets are formally delineated and determination is made regarding beneficiaries. The only difference in the trust is that it will provide greater advantage in escaping tax liability in the event of death.

Not too many folks entering into a second marriage are aware of these trusts, unless they receive counselling from an attorney skilled in these two types of instrument.

The question at hand seems to be, does either instrument invalidate the marriage? I think not, since tribunals will evaluate the mutual consent entered into at the time of the marriage, which in itself may be sacramentally binding, despite any agreement regarding the disposition of assets. Dr. Peters alluded to this in Bookcat's link.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 25, '17, 11:47 pm
Vico's Avatar
Vico Vico is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 27, 2008
Posts: 13,633
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
I can see a value in an AB trust, but it doesn't differ very much in theory from a pre-nup. In either case, the assets are formally delineated and determination is made regarding beneficiaries. The only difference in the trust is that it will provide greater advantage in escaping tax liability in the event of death.

Not too many folks entering into a second marriage are aware of these trusts, unless they receive counselling from an attorney skilled in these two types of instrument.

The question at hand seems to be, does either instrument invalidate the marriage? I think not, since tribunals will evaluate the mutual consent entered into at the time of the marriage, which in itself may be sacramentally binding, despite any agreement regarding the disposition of assets. Dr. Peters alluded to this in Bookcat's link.
The trusts are not an agreement between the spouses like a prenuptial is so can be private and the assets in them are never part of the marital estate.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 26, '17, 3:19 am
Sirach2's Avatar
Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: April 18, 2010
Posts: 15,332
Religion: Catholic, Carmelite OCDS
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
The trusts are not an agreement between the spouses like a prenuptial is so can be private and the assets in them are never part of the marital estate.
Could it be argued against a valid marriage whenever these assets are "privately" set aside in a trust almost immediately prior to the marriage? I am not disagreeing with you, but the timing could be seen as "what's mine remains forever as mine." I just choose to use a fancier way of setting them aside.

If a person has children and wishes to protect them in the event of death, I would think that this trust should be done long before there is a second marriage on the horizon. There could be no doubt then about their assets being excluded from a future partner.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 26, '17, 6:01 am
Vico's Avatar
Vico Vico is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 27, 2008
Posts: 13,633
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Any EC teachings with regards to pre-nuptial agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
Could it be argued against a valid marriage whenever these assets are "privately" set aside in a trust almost immediately prior to the marriage? I am not disagreeing with you, but the timing could be seen as "what's mine remains forever as mine." I just choose to use a fancier way of setting them aside.

If a person has children and wishes to protect them in the event of death, I would think that this trust should be done long before there is a second marriage on the horizon. There could be no doubt then about their assets being excluded from a future partner.
If an agreement indicates that the spouses do not regard marriage as indissoluble, it would be grounds for declaration of nullity. Future conditions are not allowed, but other conditions are allowed with written permission.

CIC
Can. 1102 §1. A marriage subject to a condition about the future cannot be contracted validly.
§2. A marriage entered into subject to a condition about the past or the present is valid or not insofar as that which is subject to the condition exists or not.
§3. The condition mentioned in §2, however, cannot be placed licitly without the written permission of the local ordinary.
Ok would be: I will marry you provided you don't have any debt, or I will marry you provided that you have never been married before, or I will marry you provided that you have graduated from college.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Eastern Catholicism

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
6597CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
6138Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
5162Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
4627Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: neweggs
4287Poems and Reflections
Last by: Purgatory Pete
4053OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: Fischli
3290For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: GLam8833
3261Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Herculees
2822Let's Empty Purgatory 2
Last by: tawny
2448SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 5:09 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.