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  #31  
Old Jul 17, '17, 6:46 pm
Operalan Operalan is offline
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Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

And, let's not forget that more people have seen a Pope in probably the last 40 years than have in the preceding near 2,000 years. And the exposure via print, the internet, television and radio brings extra scrutiny. People are watching and listening. Now is the time for added care---that the message presented be accurate, pure, and consistent.
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  #32  
Old Jul 18, '17, 10:01 am
giuseppeTO giuseppeTO is offline
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Join Date: October 31, 2006
Posts: 1,245
Religion: Roman Catholic - SSPX
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

The best answer really is prayer. Pray for the church. The church is most definitely in a state of crisis. According to surveys by Pew and NCR, 41% of Catholics fulfill their weekly obligation to attend Mass on Sunday in the US. It is closer to 15% in France. 37% of US Catholics do not know or believe in the True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. Those are most certainly signs of a crisis, at least in Catholic catechisis.

As for the Pope, Our Lord chose him to sit in the seat of Peter. To attempt to understand the objectives of God who has the benefit of eternal wisdom is like trying to understand the boundaries of infinity. We have the hierarchy we have for a divine reason that we cannot know in this lifetime.

So pray for the church and her leaders and keep your own soul in the state of sanctifying grace. That is all that you need to worry about. If you dont understand why the Pope or Cardinals or Bishops react as they do, dont pretend you do or that it is particularly necessary that you do understand.
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  #33  
Old Jul 18, '17, 11:37 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Join Date: August 31, 2008
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Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

[quote=TwoNames;14781439]Hello all!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNames View Post
Hello all!

May God bless you all who read this.

Please to not consider this thread as a slander. Let me first tell you that when talking with people, I was always fast at defending the Church (which is 100% correct in all Her teachings and is the Church started by Jesus Christ and is the only true Church). I am proud to defend God's only True Church - The Catholic Church, but defending the Church has become very, very hard in the last few years.

Note that here I am not talking about defending directly the teachings of the Church but instead, here I am talking about the leadership, bishops and cardinals who say and do what I do not defend, because I am starting to run out of ways to reconcile many statements of the top leadership in the Church, with the true teachings of the Church which I take from my Baltimore Cathecism (eventhough my first language is not English).

Lately I've been listening to the following speeches (I will post only titles of the speeches).

"Fatima foretold ‘diabolical forces’ that would enter Church in our time: Cardinal Burke"
"The anti-Church has come. But, don't be afraid: Fr. Linus Clovis"
"Real Catholic family life is the road out of apostasy: Bishop Schneider"
...

If I would hear a lay person say statements that are said in those talks, I would not be too scared, but these are bishops ( and Fr. Linus is not a bishop) making the statements. Let's not forget the 4 Cardinals of Dubia. I think all four of them also call for the consecration of Russia.

I am sure that many understand my concerns and I can not go in much details for those that don't. As maybe some of you know, I have a bad scrupulosity and even thinking this way about the top leadership of the Church feels very sinful for me.

The questions I have for you is the following:

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?

Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?

To conclude my message, I would like to say that this is not written as an impulse. I was sure that a thread like this already exists (it may, but I don't see it). For everyone, especially new Catholics or Catholics who are struggling with their faith. PLEASE do not be scandalized by my message. The Church was, is and always will be the Church of Christ and it will never be forsaken by God.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

May God bless His Holy Church, may Holy Spirit lead Pope Francis and all the Bishops!
May God bless us all!
As an Informed and fully practicing Roman Catholic, I FEEL and completely understand your pain and confusion.

FIRST, stop reading such articles [YES that is difficult to do], BUT DO IT ANYWAY “Take UP YOUR Cross and follow ME”

Second: READ carefully and prayerfully this article with explains:

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/07/13/why-mysticism-is-not-an-option/

WHY Me
WHY Now
WHY Here

Pray very much my friend,

Patrick
__________________
Irish2: PJM


http://working4christtwo.wordpress.com


A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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  #34  
Old Jul 18, '17, 4:42 pm
awsiukiewicz awsiukiewicz is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2012
Posts: 508
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertabelle View Post
OK. First, take a deep breath. Seriously, take a deep breath and hold it for a moment.


...


Now let it out slowly like through a straw.


...

And repeat.

...


...

OK. So here's my response to all this: How does this affect you personally?
Are you legally divorced and have now remarried outside the Church?
Has someone in that situation asked for your advice?
Do you think your pastor is "diabolical"?
To whom are you defending the Catholic Church?
Are non-Catholics asking your opinions on Fatima?
Are non-Catholics asking you about proper disposition to receive Holy Communion?
Are non-Catholics asking you if Russia has been properly consecrated?

You are not going crazy, AND there is no crisis in the Church.

There are sinners in the Church. Just as there have always been since the day of the Resurrection. And the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.

Perhaps you should stick with the Catechism for your reading material and stay away from all that "end times" nonsense. Most likely, every person on this forum will face their personal judgment loooooonnnnngggg before the end of time.

Now go take a walk and enjoy the trees and the sunshine and the fresh air.
Go see a movie -- I highly recommend "Spiderman: Homecoming."
Go to a baseball game with your family.
Have a poker/game night with your friends.

Stop worrying about things over which you have no control. God's got this.
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  #35  
Old Jul 21, '17, 6:39 am
awsiukiewicz awsiukiewicz is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2012
Posts: 508
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNames View Post
Hello all!

May God bless you all who read this.

Please to not consider this thread as a slander. Let me first tell you that when talking with people, I was always fast at defending the Church (which is 100% correct in all Her teachings and is the Church started by Jesus Christ and is the only true Church). I am proud to defend God's only True Church - The Catholic Church, but defending the Church has become very, very hard in the last few years.

Note that here I am not talking about defending directly the teachings of the Church but instead, here I am talking about the leadership, bishops and cardinals who say and do what I do not defend, because I am starting to run out of ways to reconcile many statements of the top leadership in the Church, with the true teachings of the Church which I take from my Baltimore Cathecism (eventhough my first language is not English).

Lately I've been listening to the following speeches (I will post only titles of the speeches).

"Fatima foretold ‘diabolical forces’ that would enter Church in our time: Cardinal Burke"
"The anti-Church has come. But, don't be afraid: Fr. Linus Clovis"
"Real Catholic family life is the road out of apostasy: Bishop Schneider"
...

If I would hear a lay person say statements that are said in those talks, I would not be too scared, but these are bishops ( and Fr. Linus is not a bishop) making the statements. Let's not forget the 4 Cardinals of Dubia. I think all four of them also call for the consecration of Russia.

I am sure that many understand my concerns and I can not go in much details for those that don't. As maybe some of you know, I have a bad scrupulosity and even thinking this way about the top leadership of the Church feels very sinful for me.

The questions I have for you is the following:

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?

Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?

To conclude my message, I would like to say that this is not written as an impulse. I was sure that a thread like this already exists (it may, but I don't see it). For everyone, especially new Catholics or Catholics who are struggling with their faith. PLEASE do not be scandalized by my message. The Church was, is and always will be the Church of Christ and it will never be forsaken by God.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

May God bless His Holy Church, may Holy Spirit lead Pope Francis and all the Bishops!
May God bless us all!
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  #36  
Old Jul 21, '17, 7:23 am
awsiukiewicz awsiukiewicz is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2012
Posts: 508
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

I Believe you are 'spot on " regarding a crisis in the Church...these are not nebulous ramblings of individuals stating false info. But the concerns of many Catholics. Sure, we were assured the the Holy Roman Catholic Church would survive just as it has for over 2000 years. But deny that we are in crisis and that this is some over reaction and we should take a deep breath seems ..well not quite sure hoy to reply to that...one need only watch mainstream news, regardless if the slant...EWTN which I have watched for years a really mainstream truly Catholic network has Priests and learned devout educated Catholics .who know the Catechism by the way, respectively discussing serious concerns about where the leadership of the Church is taking us...the marriage annulment process has been disregarded without the customary consultations without the customary consultation of the appropriate Roman dicasteries...rebuking the Roman Curia in a Cristmas address, whch which effectively vitiates the influence of it's prefect who has stood firmly against who had stoid firmly against innovations injurious to both the teachings on marriage (read the Catechism) and to the tenets of the Liturgy , crippling the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and shutting down the Melbourne campus of the Jn Paul II Institute...administering Holy Communion to individuals living in adulterous relationships..(Catechism)..and disregarding Cardinals merely requesting an audience with the Holy Father requesting an audience for clarification on mattters the ambiguity self evident...this is not nonesense...The end times is another matter...when I was growing up certain things wete sinful...now wr have the leadership in the Church offering tacit approval for these very things... read..read..listen..study...I'm concerned...and so are many...but there is no doubt that there are two "camps"..those who suggest we are over reacting and spending too much time reading nonsense on the internet...and those who listen....sugesting that someone who genuinely expressed concern and respectively requestested some hope and explanation for things happening un the Church.take a deep breath..go to a movie ..and read the Catechism...sounds rather condescending my brother...and I am not anyone who typically views the proverbial glass has half empty....we should keep our eyes open...when less is expected..less will be offered...if everything is o.k. and very little is sinful..where are we headed...I know what "camp" I'm in....not being a negative person I fully expect to be attacked hopefully not angrily about my personal feelings...so enlighten those of us who have genuine concern for what we are witnessing in our leadership (the Sheppards) in the Church...and we are many...Pax tecum
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  #37  
Old Jul 21, '17, 8:49 am
Jestersage Jestersage is offline
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Join Date: July 12, 2017
Posts: 36
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Is there a crisis? Yes. But it's far less than Alexander VI. Catholic church definitely had worse.
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  #38  
Old Jul 21, '17, 9:27 am
Operalan Operalan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2010
Posts: 315
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Yes, there have been other major crisis over the centuries. However, the problems now are magnified and spread like wild fire compared to any crisis of centuries past. This makes the problems even more abundant and needing of clear and concise leadership in a more timely manner. The ancient Church did not have to face the internet. Much of what happened was not known by the Uniersal Church until much later. The effect of those problems wasn't always as wide reaching. Now, things are snowballing and clear and strong voices are not being heard to stop it. And the voices need to be consistent with Catholic teaching..not muddled in nuance.
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  #39  
Old Jul 22, '17, 1:57 pm
awsiukiewicz awsiukiewicz is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2012
Posts: 508
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoNames View Post
Hello all!

May God bless you all who read this.

Please to not consider this thread as a slander. Let me first tell you that when talking with people, I was always fast at defending the Church (which is 100% correct in all Her teachings and is the Church started by Jesus Christ and is the only true Church). I am proud to defend God's only True Church - The Catholic Church, but defending the Church has become very, very hard in the last few years.

Note that here I am not talking about defending directly the teachings of the Church but instead, here I am talking about the leadership, bishops and cardinals who say and do what I do not defend, because I am starting to run out of ways to reconcile many statements of the top leadership in the Church, with the true teachings of the Church which I take from my Baltimore Cathecism (eventhough my first language is not English).

Lately I've been listening to the following speeches (I will post only titles of the speeches).

"Fatima foretold ‘diabolical forces’ that would enter Church in our time: Cardinal Burke"
"The anti-Church has come. But, don't be afraid: Fr. Linus Clovis"
"Real Catholic family life is the road out of apostasy: Bishop Schneider"
...

If I would hear a lay person say statements that are said in those talks, I would not be too scared, but these are bishops ( and Fr. Linus is not a bishop) making the statements. Let's not forget the 4 Cardinals of Dubia. I think all four of them also call for the consecration of Russia.

I am sure that many understand my concerns and I can not go in much details for those that don't. As maybe some of you know, I have a bad scrupulosity and even thinking this way about the top leadership of the Church feels very sinful for me.

The questions I have for you is the following:

Am I going crazy or did the crissis in the Church go from bad to worse in a matter of the last few months?

Is it sinful (am I sinning) if I am angry with the Pope who is fast to dialogue with false religion of islam, but will not anwser the four YES/NO questions of the Dubia document, that was written with great respect for the successor of St. Peter by Cardinals that respect him and seek clarification and are afraid of mass sacriligious reception of Holy Communion?

To conclude my message, I would like to say that this is not written as an impulse. I was sure that a thread like this already exists (it may, but I don't see it). For everyone, especially new Catholics or Catholics who are struggling with their faith. PLEASE do not be scandalized by my message. The Church was, is and always will be the Church of Christ and it will never be forsaken by God.

To moderators: if you consider this in post in any way scandalizing and/or anti-Catholic, please remove it immedietly. My OCD and my scrupulosity know how to turn everything in a mortal sin and believe me that this took some courage to write - and I will probably be confessing it in my next confession.

May God bless His Holy Church, may Holy Spirit lead Pope Francis and all the Bishops!
May God bless us all!
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  #40  
Old Yesterday, 3:33 am
poche poche is offline
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Join Date: August 19, 2012
Posts: 605
Religion: catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

"The anti-Church has come."

I remember in the 80s there being talk about how the Freemasons were the anti-Church. At one point Francois Mitterand said that the freemasons were the anti Church and he was proud of his associatn with that organization. Of course his attitude chnged when he got closer to death.
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  #41  
Old Yesterday, 8:15 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Join Date: August 31, 2008
Posts: 14,231
Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestersage View Post
Is there a crisis? Yes. But it's far less than Alexander VI. Catholic church definitely had worse.
And WHEN and WHAT was thay specifically?

GBY
__________________
Irish2: PJM


http://working4christtwo.wordpress.com


A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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  #42  
Old Today, 7:08 am
Rosebud77 Rosebud77 is offline
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Join Date: February 7, 2013
Posts: 9,723
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casilda View Post
I agree, seems there is a trend of belittling and insulting posters who ask questions here on CAF. Name calling, labeling people as scrupulous or of having mental/psychiatric problems, ad nauseum...

Very few here are Christlike examples of our Catholic faith.
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  #43  
Old Today, 7:13 am
Rosebud77 Rosebud77 is offline
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Join Date: February 7, 2013
Posts: 9,723
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestersage View Post
Is there a crisis? Yes. But it's far less than Alexander VI. Catholic church definitely had worse.
Really? You sure of that?
And how does that make the "now" any less serious?
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  #44  
Old Today, 10:29 am
CatholicRaven CatholicRaven is offline
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Join Date: June 19, 2012
Posts: 947
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: From bad to worse, or am I going crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Operalan View Post
Absolutely!!! Pray for our Priests and "our religious half". But don't be afraid to ask questions in charity, and to ask for clarity. Do we have to assume that EVERYTHING done or said by a Priest (or others) is absolutely correct? We know that might not be necessarily wise. If we misunderstand a teaching, especially a teaching that goes against historical teaching, is it wrong to ask for clarification? After getting the clarification that is in allignment with Church teaching or the Catechism, then, I'm all for "Letting go and letting God". But, if someone is teaching against the Catechism or is not being clear in what they are teaching, I'm going to have a very hard time with "Letting it Go"--nor would I think that would be something that the Church would teach.
Agreed. Thank you for expanding on what I said.

I don't think we disagree. I was focused more on those leaders the OP mentioned: the Pope, for instance. Those people with whom the OP will likely not be in direct contact, much less have any influence to change their minds or ask for clarification. And we definitely don't assume that everything a priest (or anyone) says is absolutely correct, especially if it appears to be in conflict with Church teaching. I don't think anything I said implied that.

And certainly, if your own priest or bishop or whomever says something that troubles you, it's generally a good idea to ask for clarification.
__________________
God bless,
--Amy


"Some pray to marry the man they love; my prayer will somewhat vary;
I humbly pray to Heaven above that I love the man I marry."
-Rose Starks


If we prayed for our priests and religious half as much as we complain about them, we'd have nothing to complain about.
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