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  #61  
Old Feb 17, '17, 2:48 pm
kc456 kc456 is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

OP here.

God does answer prayers! I prayed a lot about being more patient with my kids. There are a lot of them and I feel mentally worn out for sure, and not able to give them what they need. I even went to my last confession for that; patience. But I found silence, no answer from God. I kept praying.

Now today I feel a sense of peace (well, I don't want to be naive, maybe it's more numbness mistaken for peace). Who has time to yell or be impatient with one's children when her mind is preoccupied with perhaps going to HELL IF SHE DIES TODAY. And I am not strong enough yet (I did not say ever, I said yet) to just remove the IUD.

So that's where I am at. One prayer answered. Not in the way I expected!
  #62  
Old Feb 17, '17, 3:09 pm
Hoosier Daddy Hoosier Daddy is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

I'm interested to know how someone who did not know church teaching on their s and now uses two forms of abc got 7 kids.....


Op, I'm sure it's an interesting story.....
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  #63  
Old Feb 17, '17, 3:45 pm
hurtandhealing hurtandhealing is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

Hi, OP! I thank God that you are here in your journey - for exactly where you are right now!

I wholeheartedly believe you when you say that you are just learning this for the first time. I remember the horrible feeling I had when I learned it. Sure, I knew that the Church teaches "no contraception" but without knowing anything about sin (mortal or venial), among basically all of the Church's teaching, I had nothing with which to form my own conscience based on God's love and truth. But now you are in a great place!

You have received all the "technical" information that you need to make decisions in this situation. As a woman whose upbringing was, "I love that person - therefore s/he must be in heaven after death," I can tell how stressful this is to learn that this isn't what God wants for or asks of us. But now I am going to chime in and ask you to do something . . . BREATHE!!!

OP, it is very hard to wrap your head around all of this in one sitting. Please slow yourself down. Others are correct, you cannot receive the sacraments at this time (and going up for a blessing, while often encouraged, is neither a part of the Mass or required or necessary). But there are so many things you can do right now to grow your relationship with God.

1. Pray! The Rosary was suggested and is always helpful. Our Mother wants to help you through this. She loves you infinitely more than even you love your own children!

2. Attend Mass weekly (and Holy Days of Obligation). Look up information about spiritual communion and pray that Jesus comes into your heart until you are able to receive Him sacramentally.

3. Read the Bible. Ask the Holy Spirit to change your heart. There are several passages in the Old Testament where God tells the Israelites that He wants to change their stony hearts into natural hearts. Find some of those and make them your prayer.

4. Read and study the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Focus especially on the sacraments ; Confession, Eucharist , and MARRIAGE. You will be amazed at how much you didn't know about each of these. And how beautiful they are.

5. Learn about and learn NFP. Based on all that you are doing right now, it is highly unlikely that you will get pregnant, as you already know. As someone who expects to be able to control her fertility, and has probably heard all about how inaccurate NFP is (I am basing that on your refusal to even consider it.) I believe that you have never really learned about it. Learning to monitor your fertile signs will help you to feel confident that it really can work. It will not hurt your current situation to learn about these things. (You can continue even as you are wearing the IUD, although there will be changes in your cycle as you wean off the hormones whenever you have it removed.)

A few more thoughts about these suggestions: people on here are correct in that NFP is not an alternate for contraception, but for abstention. In a marriage you both are to be part of the decision making process in abstaining or not. It can be hard. However, if you understand what marriage is and what the marital embrace is supposed to be, it can help.

You are at the starting line of learning about God's love for you. (Hint: Jesus would have suffered and died on the cross even if you were the only person He would have saved!) Hopefully through these suggestions, you will learn to believe in that love. God doesn't promise us a long and pain free life. He does promise us that we can chose Eternal Life!

I needed both of those things (understanding that God wants me to chose Him and how wonderfully He made me) to have complete confidence in His plan. I am in my mid 40s and getting to a point where menopause symptoms will start and where we may not be as open in our marriage to adding to our family. I can assure you - there is nothing I would trust more than what I use right now in NFP. I can read the signs and we can decide together if we really want another child. I know that God wants what is best for our whole family - and what is best is being in heaven with Him for all eternity. I trust Him completely that we can follow His plan for our marriage, not sin, and that He will only send us a child if that is the best way for ALL of us to get to heaven.

It is true that presumption (believing that God will forgive you without your repentance) is a sin. However, He knows where you are and loves you. Pray, pray, pray. Ask Him to teach you. And simply work on the things that I recommend. Ask Him to change your heart - it is stony now, but He is the Divine Healer. He will heal your heart, and you will love Him all the more for it!
  #64  
Old Feb 17, '17, 3:57 pm
kc456 kc456 is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

OP here again. We have so many because in the past I always refused birth control after each baby, when the doctor offered it. I wanted more kids. We planned every single kid and mostly were within 2 months of when we wanted the birth, through all natural simply trying. And recently I decided I could not physically go through another pregnancy after the last one. Each was was more difficult (and physically and medically I don't need to go into that, I guess, sorry).

But the last baby was actually conceived using a condom OR the one time during menstration without a condom. So of course I don't trust birth control. The reason the condom was used was because DH wanted to space the timing of this baby out more. I did not. I was secretly VERY glad I conceived when we did.

So the nice Lutheran lady down the street and all the Catholics still without a fully informed faith can go to Heaven because they are protected by ignorance EVEN if they are doing what I am doing? But I go to Hell? I am SCARED to learn more about my faith if that's the case. I might discover more sins and then...you see? I don't understand. The generation before me was taught Protestants go to Hell and they BELIEVED it. I asked. But this cannot change. So? God is constant and would not change and suddenly Protestants can go to Heaven whereas a few decades ago they could not. Confused!
  #65  
Old Feb 17, '17, 4:04 pm
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pianistclare pianistclare is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

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Originally Posted by kc456 View Post
OP here again. We have so many because in the past I always refused birth control after each baby, when the doctor offered it. I wanted more kids. We planned every single kid and mostly were within 2 months of when we wanted the birth, through all natural simply trying. And recently I decided I could not physically go through another pregnancy after the last one. Each was was more difficult (and physically and medically I don't need to go into that, I guess, sorry).

But the last baby was actually conceived using a condom OR the one time during menstration without a condom. So of course I don't trust birth control. The reason the condom was used was because DH wanted to space the timing of this baby out more. I did not. I was secretly VERY glad I conceived when we did.

So the nice Lutheran lady down the street and all the Catholics still without a fully informed faith can go to Heaven because they are protected by ignorance EVEN if they are doing what I am doing? But I go to Hell? I am SCARED to learn more about my faith if that's the case. I might discover more sins and then...you see? I don't understand. The generation before me was taught Protestants go to Hell and they BELIEVED it. I asked. But this cannot change. So? God is constant and would not change and suddenly Protestants can go to Heaven whereas a few decades ago they could not. Confused!

OF COURSE you're confused. SEE THE PRIEST.
Not internet strangers.
Your questions are not going to be answered on an online forum.
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  #66  
Old Feb 17, '17, 4:53 pm
kc456 kc456 is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

DH would ditch the condoms. He hates them! And it's not for any church reasons. He just does not like them. Does that mean he can go to communion and not be in any mortal sin if he did that?
The burden is only on me since I have the IUD??

He COULD have had surgery to sterilize but he is afraid of any surgery so of course did not (not for any church reasons). So I got the IUD because that was what we talked about as the best option, I guess. But now the sin in all on me?

If I had had a permanent surgery then all I would need to do is confess (since obviously I would be truly sorry, as I am now), but since mine is reversible, I can't even go to confess (unless I reverse it myself). But they don't say to reverse a surgery. Sorry, there is a lot to think about.
  #67  
Old Feb 17, '17, 5:46 pm
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

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Originally Posted by kc456 View Post
OK, then so as I understand it, I do NOT go to confession right now, for THIS issue.
Yes, I am sorry I got it and have it. I am not ready to remove it. If he won't abstain then there is no 100%. And, yes, I am fully open to life should the IUD/condoms not prevent.

I will go to mass.
My question still remains, then, that I will not be able to receive the host even once for years, if this is the case (as long as I have an IUD), to avoid receiving while in mortal sin. What kind of sin is that, then, to not receive at Easter? But it seems I cannot if I have the IUD. ???

In the future, if I don't have an IUD but he uses condoms, it feels a little wrong to place the all the sin on him. We BOTH feel our family is complete and want to avoid pregnancy. But I want to abstain (I am not comfortable with NFP alone since it's not 100%). He will not abstain. So I can go to confession (to at least tell a priest the situation), and I'm in the clear?

April of NEXT year this particular IUD comes out, for sure. It has to. How patient is the church with this and sin? What if I have an IUD for years? Am I still able to confess and then sin no more? There will be a point when an IUD would no longer even be needed. I know these are difficult questions but if I was not wrestling with this I would not be here, and I appreciate your help.

If as a 60YO woman I confess for this whole thing would absolution even be possible? Though I suppose if I die before then, I go to hell???? Or am I not understanding that right? For SURE do I go to hell? Or can we possible know that? God knows what's in one's heart, right, and does that matter at all?

Wait...Do I have a purpose of ammendment? I think so, just not right now. I DO intend to be in line with church teaching at some point. Just as a woman saving to get it removed, though she'd do so sooner. So DO I go to confession even if I cannot get absolution?

Thank you.
Sorry but saying you are open to life if the IUD/condom fails is nonsense. That is NOT being open to life. Open to life is NOT using any artificial means to prevent pregnancy.

Going to be in line with the Church teaching at some point does not get you out of a state of mortal sin. That means you are still disobeying God and yes he knows that.

Frankly, I would suggest a talk with your priest outside Confession.
  #68  
Old Feb 19, '17, 12:36 am
Mammoths Mammoths is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

Just read both your thread starters and some of the responses. My advice:
If you can get it, you need help in your marriage from a qualified counselor

It sounds like your husband is angry about you talking with the priest. In his mind this could be a violation of the sanctity of marital privacy--discussing sex issues with someone outside the union. Even though you may realize you need help, try to be sensitive to your husbands need for privacy to the extent possible. Try to find a way to show that you respect him even if you don't agree. Men absolutely cannot relate to a person who does not communicate respect--it's like relating with a person who hates you to a man. Disagree respectfully.

Don't get drawn into a fight. Disagree peacefully even if he is not peaceful. When two people respond to each other in a combative way, the situation will escalate until someone gets chicken or gets killed. Look for a way to be a peacemaker.

You mention he won't obstain. If you are in the US, By law conjugation must be by mutual consent even within marriage. If you ask him to obstain temporarily for your benefit and he forces or intimidates you that is a crime. Call the police.
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  #69  
Old Feb 19, '17, 12:42 am
Mammoths Mammoths is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle View Post
Sorry but saying you are open to life if the IUD/condom fails is nonsense. That is NOT being open to life. Open to life is NOT using any artificial means to prevent pregnancy.

Going to be in line with the Church teaching at some point does not get you out of a state of mortal sin. That means you are still disobeying God and yes he knows that.

Frankly, I would suggest a talk with your priest outside Confession.
I have never understood how "open to life" implies no condom but allows abstinence for a season to prevent pregnancy. Either way you are actively avoiding procreation which means not open to life. Admittedly there are additional considerations that may differentiate abc vs NFP but being open to life is not one of them.
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⚠️ posts from this member may be corrupted by evangelicalism and not fully reflect the churches teachings. Please take exception with extreme prejudice. ⚠️ (the more you correct me the more I learn) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...26&version=DRA
  #70  
Old Feb 19, '17, 1:03 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: IUD/birth control, help doing what the church wants

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Originally Posted by Mammoths View Post
I have never understood how "open to life" implies no condom but allows abstinence for a season to prevent pregnancy. Either way you are actively avoiding procreation which means not open to life. Admittedly there are additional considerations that may differentiate abc vs NFP but being open to life is not one of them.
CCC 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.
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