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  #1  
Old Apr 20, '07, 6:37 pm
TexRose TexRose is offline
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Default Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

I don't know if this is the correct forum to post this. I apologize if it is.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070420/ts_nm/pope_limbo_dc

Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries By Philip Pullella
Fri Apr 20, 2:21 PM ET

The Roman Catholic Church has effectively buried the concept of limbo, the place where centuries of tradition and teaching held that babies who die without baptism went.

In a long-awaited document, the Church's International Theological Commission said limbo reflected an "unduly restrictive view of salvation."

The 41-page document was published on Friday by Origins, the documentary service of the U.S.-based Catholic News Service, which is part of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Pope Benedict, himself a top theologian who before his election in 2005 expressed doubts about limbo, authorized the publication of the document, called "The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptised."

The verdict that limbo could now rest in peace had been expected for years. The document was seen as most likely the final word since limbo was never part of Church doctrine, even though it was taught to Catholics well into the 20th century.

"The conclusion of this study is that there are theological and liturgical reasons to hope that infants who die without baptism may be saved and brought into eternal happiness even if there is not an explicit teaching on this question found in revelation," it said.

"There are reasons to hope that God will save these infants precisely because it was not possible (to baptize them)."

The Church teaches that baptism removes original sin which stains all souls since the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden.

"NO NEGATION OF BAPTISM"

The document stressed that its conclusions should not be interpreted as questioning original sin or "used to negate the necessity of baptism or delay the conferral of the sacrament."

Limbo, which comes from the Latin word meaning "border" or "edge," was considered by medieval theologians to be a state or place reserved for the unbaptized dead, including good people who lived before the coming of Christ.

"People find it increasingly difficult to accept that God is just and merciful if he excludes infants, who have no personal sins, from eternal happiness, whether they are Christian or non-Christian," the document said.

It said the study was made all the more pressing because "the number of nonbaptised infants has grown considerably, and therefore the reflection on the possibility of salvation for these infants has become urgent."

The commission's conclusions had been widely expected.

In writings before his election as Pope in 2005, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger made it clear he believed the concept of limbo should be abandoned because it was "only a theological hypothesis" and "never a defined truth of faith."

In the Divine Comedy, Dante placed virtuous pagans and great classical philosophers, including Plato and Socrates, in limbo. The Catholic Church's official catechism, issued in 1992 after decades of work, dropped the mention of limbo.
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  #2  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:21 pm
Thaddeus Thaddeus is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

This is good. I never liked the concept of a 4th place in the aferlife.
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  #3  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:30 pm
rien rien is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

What other doctrines of the church will change in coming years? I really think re-marriage and denial of communion needs to be re-evaluated. It is too restrictive also IMO.

Is there a chance that the contraception doctirne could be modified in years to come. There are those rumors.
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  #4  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:32 pm
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

From what I've heard, none of this is binding- Deo Gratias. People are still free to believe in Limbo.
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  #5  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:39 pm
PapaSquash PapaSquash is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by rien View Post
What other doctrines of the church will change in coming years? I really think re-marriage and denial of communion needs to be re-evaluated. It is too restrictive also IMO.

Is there a chance that the contraception doctirne could be modified in years to come. There are those rumors.
Limbo was not doctrine. It had been postulated as possible by theologians and was generally accepted.

The permanance of sacramental Marriage and the intrinsic evil of contraception are doctrine. Acceptance of them is a required part of the deal.
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  #6  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:43 pm
Priscilla Ann Priscilla Ann is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Where did the concept of "Limbo" originate from in the first place?
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  #7  
Old Apr 20, '07, 7:51 pm
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mdstanzel mdstanzel is offline
 
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

As my oldest son used to say when he was a very young boy, it was postulated by "old dead guys".
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Old Apr 20, '07, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Is the document that buried Limbo a infallible document?
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  #9  
Old Apr 20, '07, 8:27 pm
nobody nobody is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
Is the document that buried Limbo a infallible document?

This is from the Yahoo story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/...ba.bKHiZI7Xs8F

"While the report does not carry the authority of a papal encyclical or even the weight of a formal document from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it was approved by the pope on Jan. 19 and was published on the Internet — an indication that it was intended to be widely read by the faithful."
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Old Apr 20, '07, 8:34 pm
Larry1700 Larry1700 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

I'm always a little sceptical about secular news agencies writing articles about Church teaching. Zenit's report sounds different than the one on Yahoo:

Quote:
Panel Backs Hopes for Unbaptized Infants Who Die

Pope OKs Publication of Report on Limbo


VATICAN CITY, APRIL 20, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI authorized the publication of a report that expresses the hope that babies who die without baptism are able to get to heaven.

The report by the International Theological Commission, published today, concluded that there are serious theological and liturgical grounds for the hope that such babies are saved and enjoy the beatific vision.

The commission says the theological hypothesis of "limbo" appeared to be based on an unduly restrictive view of salvation.

The 41-page document noted this is an "urgent pastoral problem," especially because of the large number of unbaptized babies who die as victims of abortion.

The commission's documents are not considered official expressions of the magisterium. But the commission does help the Holy See to examine important doctrinal issues.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church in No. 1261 explains: "As regards children who have died without baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.

"Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,' allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism.

"All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy baptism."

ZE07042008
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  #11  
Old Apr 20, '07, 8:35 pm
cor cor is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSquash View Post
Limbo was not doctrine. It had been postulated as possible by theologians and was generally accepted.

The permanance of sacramental Marriage and the intrinsic evil of contraception are doctrine. Acceptance of them is a required part of the deal.
Doctrine means teaching. It was the teaching of Catholic schools and bishops. I don't know if it was ever the teaching of popes ... anyone know?
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Old Apr 20, '07, 9:16 pm
PapaSquash PapaSquash is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Main Entry: doc·trine
Pronunciation: 'däk-tr&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations e : a military principle or set of strategies

(merriam Webster)

I'm talking about definition 2B. Part of the body of principles that make up our Catholic faith. Limbo is not one of those things and never has been. Marriage and contraception are and always have been.

Limbo is a belief that many Catholics have held over the centuries, probably including popes. Belief in Limbo has never been a requirement for communion with the Church. Only things that are certain to be true are required beliefs. Others, even longstanding things like Limbo, and popular things like our Lady's appearance at Fatima are approved, but not dogmatic.
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  #13  
Old Apr 20, '07, 9:55 pm
john1863 john1863 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Since we're on the subject of infallible...what other precepts of the church may be up for question? BTW, I was taught about Limbo.

John
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  #14  
Old Apr 20, '07, 10:38 pm
John Higgins John Higgins is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Limbo has only ever been dancing under a bamboo pole.

Feel free to believe in it still, though. BTW, Elvis is working at a truck stop in Grand Rapids too.



John
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  #15  
Old Apr 20, '07, 11:03 pm
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MikeDunphy MikeDunphy is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by cor View Post
Doctrine means teaching. It was the teaching of Catholic schools and bishops. I don't know if it was ever the teaching of popes ... anyone know?
Speaking of abortion, Pope Sixtus V wrote:
For who would not detest a crime as execrable as this — a crime whose consequence is that not just bodies, but — still worse! — even souls, are, as it were, cast away? The soul of the unborn infant bears the imprint of God's image! It is a soul for whose redemption Christ our Lord shed His precious blood, a soul capable of eternal blessedness and destined for the company of angels! Who, therefore, would not condemn and punish with the utmost severity the desecration committed by one who has excluded such a soul from the blessed vision of God? Such a one has done all he or she could possibly have done to prevent this soul from reaching the place prepared for it in heaven, and has deprived God of the service of this His own creature.
Pope Sixtus V, Effrænatam, 29 October 1588

On the necessity of baptism for salvation, Pope Eugenius IV wrote:
With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, [the holy Roman church] admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or a woman in the form of the church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians.
Pope Eugenius IV, Bull of union with the Copts, 4 February 1442


The souls ... of those who die in mortal sin or with only original sin descend immediately into hell; however, to be punished with different penalties and in different places.
Pope John XXII, "Nequaquam sine delore" (Letter to the Armenians) 1321
[Denzinger, Sources of Catholic Dogma, 493a]


The punishment of original sin is deprivation of the vision of God, but the punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell.
Innocent III, Letter to the Archbishop of Arles,” 1201
[Denzinger 410]


I don't think any of these statements are meant to define a dogma, however.
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